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How can Dawkins redeem himself?

bookitty said:
Had EG introduced himself and then said something like "I found your talk very interesting." and left it at that, Watson would have responded like a very tired person who doesn't particularly want to have a conversation. Because that's what she was. And it would have ended there. No harm, no foul.
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Are we (the public) even sure that the question was at all a sexual one?

Don't pretend like I'm saying that a woman should not over react (I'd rather a woman overreacts than that she is so naive to get taken advantage of).

I want to know if the question in the elevator was one of sexual interest, or intellectual interest.

If the same question had been asked in a situation with two heterosexual males, it would have been interpreted as a request to discuss further.

In this case it is seen as a request for sex.


Again, I'm not pretending to know the specifics, nor amy I trying to imply that women should stop overreacting.


I just want to know the real intention.
 
bookitty said:
Well, for one, you could stop making it the woman's job to stop something that she has no control over.
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Ivor is asking you to assert control by making it clear you do or do not want interest directed your way.

bookitty said:
I would recommend that men introduce themselves by name and then watch to see how the woman reacts. And take it from there. There is no magic "get into a stranger's pants" formula. Only two human beings who are learning about each other in real time. If they both discover something they like, things will progress.

Had EG introduced himself and then said something like "I found your talk very interesting." and left it at that, Watson would have responded like a very tired person who doesn't particularly want to have a conversation. Because that's what she was. And it would have ended there. No harm, no foul.
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Do you know your expectation of polite behavior is not universal?
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
Let's assume EG did want to have sex with Ms. Watson. What was the obvious signal that she was not interested in having sex with him?
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This is a trick question. Anything I mention will immediately incite a chorus of "But why would that mean that she wasn't sexually available?"

I can only say that I have seen many tired people at 4 AM and while they exhibited very different signs, their exhaustion was obvious.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Ivor is asking you to assert control by making it clear you do or do not want interest directed your way.

Do you know your expectation of polite behavior is not universal?
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Giving your name and a brief sentence of shared interest is now beyond the bounds of expectation?

Ivor asked a specific question, I answered it as best I can. As you have more experience with less...cerebral introductions, I suggest you answer the same question as best you can and perhaps Ivor will find his way to those lasses who need no introduction.
 
Well, just as I expected all those decades ago, phasing out elevator attendants has done nothing but harm to World Feminism.
 
bookitty said:
This is a trick question. Anything I mention will immediately incite a chorus of "But why would that mean that she wasn't sexually available?"

I can only say that I have seen many tired people at 4 AM and while they exhibited very different signs, their exhaustion was obvious.
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It's not a trick question. It's purpose is to try to get you to realise how impossible it is for men to meet your standard and how women (such as yourself) who complain about men hitting on women when the women aren't interested only ever want to change men's behaviour rather than women's.
 
bookitty said:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cocktail-party-physics/2011/07/20/is-it-cold-in-here/

I have a bet going with my husband as to which part of this will be singled out. Let's see if I'm right, shall we?
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With all the other trouble in the world, why should we care about this? It’s because those climate issues chase many women out of the hard sciences — and indeed, out of any male-dominated community. In March, the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, conducted an NSF-funded study on the retention (or lack thereof) of women in engineering. Nearly half of the women surveyed who left engineering said they did so because of negative working conditions, lack of advancement or low salary, and one in three left because they did not like the workplace climate, their boss or the culture. Only one in four left to spend more time with family — the usual excuse that gets trotted out when folks try to explain away the low numbers of women in such fields.
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Did they ask the men who left engineering for their reasons for leaving the profession? Were they very different from those women raised?

ETA: And I notice the implied action is for men to change to accommodate what women want.
 
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Ivor the Engineer said:
It's not a trick question. It's purpose is to try to get you to realise how impossible it is for men to meet your standard and how women (such as yourself) who complain about men hitting on women when the women aren't interested only ever want to change men's behaviour rather than women's.
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No, it's not terribly difficult to tell after introduction and bland sentence that someone is tired, not feeling social, is not feeling you, would rather be somewhere else, or is intimidated. All of which are indications that they would rather not spend more time with you whether it be sex or discussion.

How am I supposed to change my behavior so that men do not randomly approach me? I've already tried getting old.
 
MikeSun5 said:
Stop showering?
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Well, that might protect me at TAM next year.

Although I think I'll go with something more subtle. Instead of being nice about it, I'll go for loud humiliation in front of as large an audience as I can muster. Even if I have to wait until I am in front of an audience to do so. I'll probably be able to get a few of the more fed up to join me. Except for myself, all women involved will be anonymous.

So basically, instead of women wondering which dweeb is going to try to ruin their day, the dweebs can try to guess which woman is going to do her best to humiliate them in front of their peers.

Of course, since they know in advance that it might happen, they should just prepare for it, smile, accept it graciously and move on.
 
At the vaccination clinic at TAM9, I handed out a great number of hugs. No coffee or elevators were involved :)
 
MattusMaximus said:
At the vaccination clinic at TAM9, I handed out a great number of hugs. No coffee or elevators were involved :)
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Thank you! This is a perfect example of how context is important and leads to really wonderful human interaction.
 
bookitty said:
Thank you! This is a perfect example of how context is important and leads to really wonderful human interaction.
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Yup, and every single person whom I hugged (both men and women) I asked first and got permission. Actually, I went one further and simply stated that "hugs were available upon request", and then I let them approach me.

Lots of happy people that way :)
 
MattusMaximus said:
Yup, and every single person whom I hugged (both men and women) I asked first and got permission. Actually, I went one further and simply stated that "hugs were available upon request", and then I let them approach me.

Lots of happy people that way :)
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Yes! Exactly! This a hundred gazillion times!
 
bookitty said:
Giving your name and a brief sentence of shared interest is now beyond the bounds of expectation?

Ivor asked a specific question, I answered it as best I can. As you have more experience with less...cerebral introductions, I suggest you answer the same question as best you can and perhaps Ivor will find his way to those lasses who need no introduction.
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Expecting everyone to follow Bookitty's rules of interaction is so far beyond the bounds of expectation, it falls off the planet.

Think about how ludicrous your suggesting is. Do you plan to seek a consensus and then personally teach every male in the country what your expected rules are? Are you really that naive?
 
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