How many races do the dolls at your kids' daycare represent?

[MontagK505]

Great question and a great source of criticism for multiculturalism. Hey, I'll concede the hedge. Go easy on me.

No problem with the easy.

BTW It's good to see you posting again.

 

[fuelair]

What's a race?

A race is a competition wherein two or more things (mechanical, living or at some vague point between) attempt to leave from (often) some specific point with the goal of winning by reaching a defined specific point first OR by reaching a further/greater point in a specific amount of time.

 

[fuelair]

Scientifically there is little support for the concept of race. However we still use the term in a more colloquial sense and I think for some good reasons. People are, demonstrably, treated differently based on perceived differences. Skin color is, by definition, superficial however it is demonstrable that we all harbor biases based on this superficial trait. I don't care much for multiculturalism but I don't toss it all out either.

Given the results of the Brown v. Board of education Doll test results I have to say that I don't think it a bad idea in principle.

When people are not treated differently based on the color of their skin then I would say these kinds of actions will not be necessary. However, we should note that intervention can have unforeseen consequences.

Welcome back!!!

 

[slingblade]

What's a race?

What is Race? When some people use the "race" they attach a biological meaning, still others use "race" as a socially constructed concept. It is clear that even though race does not have a biological meaning, it does have a social meaning which has been legally constructed.



Social
Construction
. . . I define a "race" as a vast group of people loosely bound together by historically contingent, socially significant elements of their morphology and/or ancestry. I argue that race must be understood as a sui generis social phenomenon in which contested systems of meaning serve as the connections between physical features, races, and personal characteristics. In other words, social meanings connect our faces to our souls. Race is neither an essence nor an illusion, but rather an ongoing, contradictory, self-reinforcing process subject to the macro forces of social and political struggle and the micro effects of daily decisions. . . [R]eferents of terms like Black, White, Asian, and Latino are social groups, not genetically distinct branches of humankind. (3)

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/race.htm

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Scientifically there is little support for the concept of race. However we still use the term in a more colloquial sense and I think for some good reasons. People are, demonstrably, treated differently based on perceived differences. Skin color is, by definition, superficial however it is demonstrable that we all harbor biases based on this superficial trait. I don't care much for multiculturalism but I don't toss it all out either.

Given the results of the Brown v. Board of education Doll test results I have to say that I don't think it a bad idea in principle.

When people are not treated differently based on the color of their skin then I would say these kinds of actions will not be necessary. However, we should note that intervention can have unforeseen consequences.

I get just as much guff from other Hispanics for not conforming to their expectations as I get from non-Hispanics. That's fun.

I have a [(Chinese-Jamaican)/American] friend who looks blonde, fair, and freckled. What race is she?

Race is clunky, unscientific, and based purely on social agreement. It's long past time to put it aside.

 

[slingblade]

I just as much guff from other Hispanics for not conforming to their expectations as I get from non-Hispanics. That's fun.

I have a (Chinese-Jamaican)/American friend who looks blonde, fair, and freckled. What race is she?

Race is clunky, unscientific, and based purely on social agreement. It's long past time to put it aside.

You're right, but it hasn't been put aside yet, and ignoring it won't make it go away.

I read RandFan's link. It's heartbreaking.


Come on, people. Is there really anything wrong, shocking, or disgusting about having dolls in a day care center that are some other skin tone besides peach? Does it do anything beneficial for kids in Five Points to have only pale dolls to play with? Or only brown ones? If you want to teach inclusion, shouldn't your toys be inclusive?

I swear....it just makes me want to cry.

 

[RandFan]

I just as much guff from other Hispanics for not conforming to their expectations as I get from non-Hispanics. That's fun.

I have a (Chinese-Jamaican)/American friend who looks blonde, fair, and freckled. What race is she?

I have no illusions that I could or would be able to counter your criticisms.

Race is clunky, unscientific, and based purely on social agreement.

Yep. No disagreement there.

It's long past time to put it aside.

Oh, I SO agree. The problem is that we aren't putting it aside. So long as people are discriminated for what you and I agree are silly, superficial and arbitrary reasons then we ought not stick our heads in the sand. That's all, to the extent that we can identify the reasons for bias and prejudice it doesn't really matter if the bias and prejudice has any foundation in fact. On the contrary, it's largely because there is no basis in fact that we should not dismiss out of hand constructive ideas to deal with the bias and prejudice. Bearing in mind that the cure can be worse than what we suffer from in the first place.

 

[RandFan]

You're right, but it hasn't been put aside yet, and ignoring it won't make it go away.

I read RandFan's link. It's heartbreaking.


Come on, people. Is there really anything wrong, shocking, or disgusting about having dolls in a day care center that are some other skin tone besides peach? Does it do anything beneficial for kids in Five Points to have only pale dolls to play with? Or only brown ones? If you want to teach inclusion, shouldn't your toys be inclusive?

I swear....it just makes me want to cry.

Yeah, I think the complaint that it's not practical to represent all "races" is that significant of a criticism now that I think of it. 3 different dolls isn't an attempt to represent ever race but to propagate the idea that being different isn't bad.

 

[RandFan]

Welcome back!!!

Thanks.

 

[fuelair]

You're right, but it hasn't been put aside yet, and ignoring it won't make it go away.

I read RandFan's link. It's heartbreaking.


Come on, people. Is there really anything wrong, shocking, or disgusting about having dolls in a day care center that are some other skin tone besides peach? Does it do anything beneficial for kids in Five Points to have only pale dolls to play with? Or only brown ones? If you want to teach inclusion, shouldn't your toys be inclusive?

I swear....it just makes me want to cry.

Speaking of the link, try this one on you tube - a young lady duplicating the 50's experiment. I have trouble dealing with one part of it without reaching for the child and a machine gun. I am sure you will know the part I mean on watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyI77Yh1Gg

 

[slingblade]

The part where the child said the bad doll was bad because it was black? And the white doll good, because it was white?

[eta] Or was it the part where the child was asked which doll was the bad doll (black), and then which doll looked like her (black again) but she almost picked the white one, was reluctant to pick the black one?

No, race doesn't matter anymore. We should just ignore all this.

Sadly, a lot of us can just ignore it all.

 

[fuelair]

The part where the child said the bad doll was bad because it was black? And the white doll good, because it was white?

[eta] Or was it the part where the child was asked which doll was the bad doll (black), and then which doll looked like her (black again) but she almost picked the white one, was reluctant to pick the black one?

No, race doesn't matter anymore. We should just ignore all this.

Sadly, a lot of us can just ignore it all.

The second - more specifically the look on her face. Can't help feeling anybody doing something to make a little kid look like that needs removal (and I do not mean there the girls doing the test/experiment. )

 

[RandFan]

Speaking of the link, try this one on you tube - a young lady duplicating the 50's experiment. I have trouble dealing with one part of it without reaching for the child and a machine gun. I am sure you will know the part I mean on watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyI77Yh1Gg

Thanks fuelair. Great video.

 

[tyr_13]

While I don't have kids, I did give the daycare center all my Star Trek figures. So how many races are represented would depend on if you count the half-human, half-klingon or Vulcan, or Romulan as separate races or not.

Oh, I gave them my dinosaurs too. So many races!

 

[Nova Land]

... Long story short, Colorado's Department of Human Services proposed some rule changes for daycare centers that are ridiculously detailed.

For example:
-TV and video games are limited to twenty minutes per day.
-Dolls must represent three races. Three shall be the number thou shalt represent, and the number represented shall be three. Four shalt thou not represent. Five is right out!

... I don't care much for multiculturalism but I don't toss it all out either.

Given the results of the Brown v. Board of education Doll test results I have to say that I don't think it a bad idea in principle.

When people are not treated differently based on the color of their skin then I would say these kinds of actions will not be necessary. However, we should note that intervention can have unforeseen consequences.

Perhaps, but why only three?

Great question ...

No. Why only three? is a very poor question. Before asking that, we need to ask: Who said there could only be three?

In the OP, it says: Four shalt thou not represent. Five is right out!. But that is not a quote from the proposed rules. It is not a quote from someone who wrote the proposed rules, or someone who supports the proposed rules. It is a quote from Grizzly Adams.

All that the proposed rules say on this (as far as I can see) is: "dolls shall represent three races".

Grizzly Adams seems to be interpreting that to mean that it forbids there being dolls of more than three racial types in the daycare's toy collection. I think a more likely interpretation is that it requires there to be dolls of at least three racial types (presumably the racial types that the majority of the students in the daycare belong to).

I sincerely doubt that the intent is to make it against the rules for someone to donate a Superman doll (Kryptonian) and a Tonto doll (American Indian) if there are already Green Hornet, Kato, and Static Shock dolls in the toy collection. If that really is the intent of the proposed rule, I'd like to see some evidence of it. So far none has been provided.

Can anyone find any actual quotes (either from the proposed rules, or from the people who wrote the rules) saying the intent of the rule is to limit the number of races that can be represented by the dolls? So far the only sentences which say that are the ones Grizzly Adams made up.

 

[slingblade]

I also think it means three as a minimum. Some may be lazy or indifferent, and stick with three, because they have to have at least that many. Others may take it as an opportunity to buy as many ethnically or culturally or whateverally diverse dolls as they can find and afford to buy.

 

[RandFan]

Why only three? is a very poor question. Before asking that, we need to ask: Who said there could only be three?

Ya got me. What can I say. I shall hang my head and weep. Though, to be fair, I did revisit the subject and took issue with it. However, I did go in a different direction than you. Thanks Nova. My bad. I'll try and do better in the future.

 

[Aepervius]

I have no kids but at my colleague daycare center there was about thousands races :
* human
* giraffe
* cat
* dog
* teddy. more teddy you can shake your finger at
* car"z"
* robot dolls
* etc...

 

[This is The End]

I'm firmly behind the reasoning that we should ignore race completely, but I am a bit confused by this race denial act. Is there some other word we should be using? I just don't get it.

Are we just being coy as a means to ignore race completely?

Should we use the word ethnicity instead?

ethnic: designating or of a population subgroup having a common cultural heritage or nationality, as distinguished by customs, characteristics, language, common history

 

[Aepervius]

I'm firmly behind the reasoning that we should ignore race completely, but I am a bit confused by this race denial act. Is there some other word we should be using? I just don't get it.

Are we just being coy as a means to ignore race completely?

Should we use the word ethnicity instead?

ethnic: designating or of a population subgroup having a common cultural heritage or nationality, as distinguished by customs, characteristics, language, common history

The "denial" of race is msotly because they do not exists except in a very very subjective way, their definition varying from person to person.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_humans)

Heck, most people I know have only 4 races defined : red/brown, yellow, white and black.

I have never understood why it is soooooo important to sort people by melanine content really. I find much more important to sort them by non visible criteria (like trustable/not trustable, has already commited a crime/never has etc...).