Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Gene Alley]

No denier was ever been able to explain why they would need to cremate 4756 bodies in 24 hours at Auschwitz.

A good freind of mine is part of a family that hs been in the Mortuary business for five generations. I'll ask him what kind of equipment would be required to "cremate 4756 bodies in 24 hours". Sounds like a hell of a rig. Do you have any specs or a picture of this monster? I'd be interested in looking at the documentation.

Thanks

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

A good freind of mine is part of a family that hs been in the Mortuary business for five generations. I'll ask him what kind of equipment would be required to "cremate 4756 bodies in 24 hours". Sounds like a hell of a rig. Do you have any specs or a picture of this monster? I'd be interested in looking at the documentation.

Thanks

6 more messages and you'll be able to link to codoh and your favorite YouTube videos...

 

[Gene Alley]

6 more messages and you'll be able to link to codoh and your favorite YouTube videos...

I'm sure you have already seen and read it all. I'm kinda new at this and not really obcessed with the holocaust to the point where I'd spend more than a few hours a week on it.

Do you have any specs on this 5000 body a day cremator? I want to see a picture of that guy.

Thanks

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

I'm sure you have already seen and read it all. I'm kinda new at this and not really obcessed with the holocaust to the point where I'd spend more than a few hours a week on it.

Do you have any specs on this 5000 body a day cremator? I want to see a picture of that guy.

Thanks

No, personally I've hardly, scratched the surface, in spite of spending more than a few hours a day on the topic, which makes it all the more odd that none of you can tell me anything new. You just keep floating the same supposedly inquisitive comments under different nyms.

Why do you turn a plural -indicated by the contents of the document displayed in KevinSilbtedt's comment- into a request for a singular item in your own post? Bit transparent, wouldn't you say? Just repeat the numbers Dr. Ing. Kammler was informed about, if you don't mind? How many crematory ovens and muffels total at how many individual crematory buildings?

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1153/imghi062schreiben.jpg

Below the image KevinSilbstedt wrote:

No denier was ever been able to explain why they would need to cremate 4756 bodies in 24 hours at Auschwitz.

Why don't you attempt to address that point in relation to that document? Why did the SS require that sort of capacity at that particular compound in occupied Poland? For a start, that is, because those weren't the only observations in that same comment. You're oddly selective for such a new member.

5 more and we're in for comedy central, aren't we?

 

[TSR]

Do you have any specs on this 5000 body a day cremator? I want to see a picture of that guy.

.
Be sure to ask your friend how multiple ovens (each oven with multiple muffles, each muffle burning multiple bodies) impact the overall throughput, especially when little to no warm-up or cool-down time is being used and no provision is made to keep cremains separate.
.

 

[Gene Alley]

No, personally I've hardly, scratched the surface, in spite of spending more than a few hours a day on the topic, which makes it all the more odd that none of you can tell me anything new. You just keep floating the same supposedly inquisitive comments under different nyms.

Why do you turn a plural -indicated by the contents of the document displayed in KevinSilbtedt's comment- into a request for a singular item in your own post? Bit transparent, wouldn't you say? Just repeat the numbers Dr. Ing. Kammler was informed about, if you don't mind? How many crematory ovens and muffels total at how many individual crematory buildings?


Below the image KevinSilbstedt wrote:
Why don't you attempt to address that point in relation to that document? Why did the SS require that sort of capacity at that particular compound in occupied Poland? For a start, that is, because those weren't the only observations in that same. You're oddly selective for such a new member.

5 more and we're in for comedy central, aren't we?

I'm almost certain that you have spent more time researching these topics, staring at your screen and banging away angrily at your keyboard in the last couple months than I ever have or will for the rest of my life. The same can no doubt be said about many of these revisionists who have done years of research, written numerous books on the subject and travel the world attending conferences with the ADL up their asses trying to ruin their careers and discredit them in any way possible. I just got here and already feel like I'm being cajoled into making this my life's mission by a few of you holo-experts.

It looks to me like about fifty hours of homework in research and writing just answering the barrage of questions that have been hurled at me in the last few hours. Luckily for me, I have many other activities in life that I find more important and enjoyable than to submerge myself into total holocaustia for the remaining 20-30 years of my life. I'll leave that to all you experts and bona fide holocaustial enthusiasts.

Meanwhile, if it's OK with you, when I find the time, I'll ask you good people some questions that I find compelling like I did this morning. Right now, I'd like to see a link to a photograph of these uber cremators and some specs regarding how much fuel it sucked up on a daily basis. Is that too much to ask?

Thanks

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

I'm almost certain that you have spent more time researching these topics, staring at your screen and banging away angrily at your keyboard in the last couple months than I ever have or will for the rest of my life. The same can no doubt be said about many of these revisionists who have done years of research, written numerous books on the subject and travel the world attending conferences with the ADL up their asses trying to ruin their careers and discredit them in any way possible. I just got here and already feel like I'm being cajoled into making this my life's mission by a few of you holo-experts.

It looks to me like about fifty hours of homework in research and writing just answering the barrage of questions that have been hurled at me in the last few hours. Luckily for me, I have many other activities in life that I find more important and enjoyable than to submerge myself into total holocaustia for the remaining 20-30 years of my life. I'll leave that to all you experts and bona fide holocaustial enthusiasts.

Meanwhile, if it's OK with you, when I find the time, I'll ask you good people some questions that I find compelling like I did this morning. Right now, I'd like to see a link to a photograph of these uber cremators and some specs regarding how much fuel it sucked up on a daily basis. Is that too much to ask?

Thanks

Asked and answered. Probably most easily accessible - referenced repeatedly in this thread Pressac, van Pelt (books and HDOT report) not a bad place to start, if you were really starting.
You estimate about 50 hours of homework and you wrote earlier that you spend a few hours a week on the topic -in between inventing new and imaginative usages for common words - I suppose? See you back here sometime in September then ...
Take your time.

 

[Wroclaw]

It looks to me like about fifty hours of homework in research and writing just answering the barrage of questions that have been hurled at me in the last few hours.

Better get to work!

Luckily for me, I have many other activities in life that I find more important and enjoyable than to submerge myself into total holocaustia for the remaining 20-30 years of my life. I'll leave that to all you experts and bona fide holocaustial enthusiasts.

Well, then, the mere fact that you're willing to conclude that a hoax took place says a lot about you.

Meanwhile, if it's OK with you, when I find the time, I'll ask you good people some questions that I find compelling like I did this morning. Right now, I'd like to see a link to a photograph of these uber cremators and some specs regarding how much fuel it sucked up on a daily basis. Is that too much to ask?

You don't have a freaking clue, do you?

 

[Gene Alley]

Asked and answered. Probably most easily accessible - referenced repeatedly in this thread Pressac, van Pelt (books and HDOT report) not a bad place to start, if you were really starting.
You estimate about 50 hours of homework and you wrote earlier that you spend a few hours a week on the topic -in between inventing new and imaginative usages for common words - I suppose? See you back here sometime in September then ...
Take your time.

Thanks, there seems to be some questions regarding Pressac's work over at the old revisionist central. Interesting. I get the feeling that you don't like me. Why so much hostility here?

 

[TSR]

It looks to me like about fifty hours of homework in research and writing just answering the barrage of questions that have been hurled at me in the last few hours.

.
Boy it sure must take you a while to read or type anything, if it's going to take you 50 hours to compose answers to nine simple questions (plus three followups) asked since your first post, roughly twelve hours ago at this writing.

Here they are, for your convenience.

Why was genocide denial legislation enacted in Germany?

What is the relationship of advocacy and commemorative activities by members of communities whose members were victimized by the Nazis to the work of social scientists working out the history of the Third Reich?

What are the good points raised by deniers, and why are they good? To what problems, gaps, or weaknesses in the scholarly literature on the Holocaust do these points of deniers speak?

How would you explain the letter written January 29, 1943, from Bischoff Kammler if the room being referred to is not a gas chamber?

If there was no program to exterminate the Jews, what was the judge talking about when he rendered his verdict in the Täubner case?

Is it ridiculous to suggest that the number of Jews killed by May 8, 1945 could have been at least twice as many as the Nazi census in January 1942?

Why did Kues put Lindeman on his short list of Dutch names? Why even mention a man who was never deported as supposed evidence for the presence of deported people?

You think Kues ever saw one of these?

How many crematory ovens and muffles were there total at how many individual crematory buildings?

Or is roughly a question per hour too 'barragy'?
.

 

[Gene Alley]

Better get to work!

Is that a direct order?

Well, then, the mere fact that you're willing to conclude that a hoax took place says a lot about you.

I have not concluded that "a hoax took place" at this time, but I'm not convinced that one hasn't. That's different than what you said, isn't it?

You don't have a freaking clue, do you?

I will freely admit that at this point, I am holocaustially challenged compared to you and your many contemporaries here on this forum. I'm in awe! But I can name the starting line up of the '60 Pirates.

 

[Gene Alley]

.
Boy it sure must take you a while to read or type anything, if it's going to take you 50 hours to compose answers to nine simple questions (plus three followups) asked since your first post, roughly twelve hours ago at this writing.

Here they are, for your convenience.

Why was genocide denial legislation enacted in Germany?

What is the relationship of advocacy and commemorative activities by members of communities whose members were victimized by the Nazis to the work of social scientists working out the history of the Third Reich?

What are the good points raised by deniers, and why are they good? To what problems, gaps, or weaknesses in the scholarly literature on the Holocaust do these points of deniers speak?

How would you explain the letter written January 29, 1943, from Bischoff Kammler if the room being referred to is not a gas chamber?

If there was no program to exterminate the Jews, what was the judge talking about when he rendered his verdict in the Täubner case?

Is it ridiculous to suggest that the number of Jews killed by May 8, 1945 could have been at least twice as many as the Nazi census in January 1942?

Why did Kues put Lindeman on his short list of Dutch names? Why even mention a man who was never deported as supposed evidence for the presence of deported people?

You think Kues ever saw one of these?

How many crematory ovens and muffles were there total at how many individual crematory buildings?

Or is roughly a question per hour too 'barragy'?
.

Your snyde little attempts to insult my intelligence at the opening and close of your comment are duly noted. Thanks for that, I guess. However as outrageous as it may seem, I haven't spent the whole twelve hours since I posted my first comment here reading about the holocaust. I actually got out of the house for several hours, visited with some freinds, excercised, watched a replay of the British Open and a baseball game. Are you aware that you come across as a very unfriendly person?

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

Thanks, there seems to be some questions regarding Pressac's work over at the old revisionist central. Interesting. I get the feeling that you don't like me. Why so much hostility here?

Not too pile on to the load of questions- recapped in TSR's useful summary - but ...
What did you try to do first:
a. Check who Pressac was and read his work available online?
b. Check what it says about Pressac on codoh?
c. Ask Hargis to chew your food for you?

If you truly were unable to find pictures of the Auschwitz facilities mentioned to Kammler up to now you can't have looked at Pressac before, so, assuming for the moment that you are not pretending to be a totally ignorant, Why aren't you yourself working your way through the text and images of Auschwitz Technique and Operation at this very moment - rather than asking more questions and stating the obvious? Pressac's work is inconvenient for Holocaust deniers. Thanks, it was one of those things I noticed before.

Probably too hostile? September at a minimum. Serious, take your time

 

[Kevin.Silbstedt]

A good freind of mine is part of a family that hs been in the Mortuary business for five generations. I'll ask him what kind of equipment would be required to "cremate 4756 bodies in 24 hours". Sounds like a hell of a rig. Do you have any specs or a picture of this monster? I'd be interested in looking at the documentation.

Thanks

1. Nobody gives a rats ass about what your "friend" thinks. We got a document here which is direct proof for the mass extermination at Auschwitz-Birkenau. You cannot explain that away, because you dont know the technical details.
2. Your "friend" works in mortuary business, not in the mass extermination business. For today cremation process you have to cremate one corpse at a time and after that you take the ashes of this corpse, put it in an urn or something after the oven cooled off. The ovens in modern crematories are build for that purpose. But Topf und Söhne build their ovens for a different pupose: to get rid of thousands of corpses every day. There was no need to let them cool off, the ashes were collected in masses and thrown in a nearby river or the swamps and they were throwing multiple corpses at once in the ovens:

No historian ever said, that this was a normal cremation process, that's another strawman which is also typical for deniers.

3. These were the ovens at Krematorium II, capable of cremating 1440 corpses in 24 hours according to the document I posted:

This is a list of parts needed for the same ovens:

 

[LemmyCaution]

I'm almost certain that you have spent more time researching these topics, staring at your screen and banging away angrily at your keyboard in the last couple months than I ever have or will for the rest of my life. The same can no doubt be said about many of these revisionists who have done years of research, written numerous books on the subject and travel the world attending conferences with the ADL up their asses trying to ruin their careers and discredit them in any way possible. I just got here and already feel like I'm being cajoled into making this my life's mission by a few of you holo-experts.

It looks to me like about fifty hours of homework in research and writing just answering the barrage of questions that have been hurled at me in the last few hours. Luckily for me, I have many other activities in life that I find more important and enjoyable than to submerge myself into total holocaustia for the remaining 20-30 years of my life. I'll leave that to all you experts and bona fide holocaustial enthusiasts.

Meanwhile, if it's OK with you, when I find the time, I'll ask you good people some questions that I find compelling like I did this morning. Right now, I'd like to see a link to a photograph of these uber cremators and some specs regarding how much fuel it sucked up on a daily basis. Is that too much to ask?

Thanks

And yet, do you--not having done the research that slavery enthusiasts who hurl barrages of questions at themselves over the peculiar institution have done--feel presumptuous enough to wander into their conferences and announce, "Hey, I don't spend any time on this, but I read something once that I'll bet you can't answer?" Would you, without learning copyright law, venture into a conclave of copyright lawyers and tell them you're not all that impressed with what they do, and you have a thing or two to tell them about fair use in the digital age?

You have answered your own question, by the way, regarding the level of knowledge of deniers: even the obsessives don't know much more, if any more, than you. Repetition of misinformation and memes for hours on end is not the same as knowing the literature, is it?

We kind of expected you to want to keep asking questions--whilst ignoring those asked you. And to draw conclusions based on a few minutes or so a week, maybe, in the future. You know, you just come across like that, don't you?

 

[LemmyCaution]

Thanks, there seems to be some questions regarding Pressac's work over at the old revisionist central. Interesting. I get the feeling that you don't like me. Why so much hostility here?

Have you started with Pressac's work itself, or just the revisionist views of it? http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/

Edit: Of course not, it would take several hours to read. Which is what people who wish to know about and understand a topic do, study it, for actual hours. Rather than cataloging and sharing their wide interests on matters different to the object they are discussing and promoting their banal self-improvement regimen. Oh well.

 

[little grey rabbit]

1. Nobody gives a rats ass about what your "friend" thinks. We got a document here which is direct proof for the mass extermination at Auschwitz-Birkenau. You cannot explain that away, because you dont know the technical details.
2. Your "friend" works in mortuary business, not in the mass extermination business. For today cremation process you have to cremate one corpse at a time and after that you take the ashes of this corpse, put it in an urn or something after the oven cooled off. The ovens in modern crematories are build for that purpose. But Topf und Söhne build their ovens for a different pupose: to get rid of thousands of corpses every day. There was no need to let them cool off, the ashes were collected in masses and thrown in a nearby river or the swamps and they were throwing multiple corpses at once in the ovens:

[qimg]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8086/imghi047schreiben.jpg[/qimg]

No historian ever said, that this was a normal cremation process, that's another strawman which is also typical for deniers.

3. These were the ovens at Krematorium II, capable of cremating 1440 corpses in 24 hours according to the document I posted:

[qimg]http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/images/crem2furnaces.jpg[/qimg]

This is a list of parts needed for the same ovens:

[qimg]http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7843/imghi041versandanzeige.jpg[/qimg]

Can you explain, Mr Silbstedt, why the performance of these ovens seem so massively more efficient than Topf animal incinerators of that era

Auftrag Nr 44/1098/1 den 17.8.1944

Herrn Dipl Ing. Gerhard Sichert
Greifswald

Kadaver-Vernichtungsofen

Hierdurch bestätigen wir Ihnen die Annahme des uns erteilten Auftrages auf Lieferung und Herstellung eines Topf-Kadaver Vernichtungsofen mit Luftumwälzgebläse.

den Ofen Rm 8269
für das Gebläse RM 2795

Technische Gewahrleistung

Wir übernehmen die Gewährleistung für eine sachgemässe Arbeit und Ausführung vom Tage der Übergabe, der Beendigung des Trockenheizens auf die Dauer von sechs Monaten

a. ) Für die Abnahme wird vorausgesetzt, dass die Vernichtung eines Tieres im Gewicht von etwa 600 kg täglich hintereinander vorgenommen wird und der Koksverbrauch somit täglich 360 kg nicht übersteigt. Die Garantie auf die Zeitdauer der Verbrennung wird rechtsverbindlich nicht vorgenommen.

600 kg - around 12 people daily and 360 kilograms of coke, ie around 30 kilograms of coke per person.

Yet these miracle ovens of Birkenau seemed to burn 10 times as many people with only the tenth of the coke used.

What is the chemical secret of Jews that makes them so uniquely flammable?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Which incoherent testimonies, specifically? List them so we can tell you where you went wrong.



What does Nuremberg verdicts have to do with what happened during the holocaust? Which verdicts do you feel were wrong and why?



I agree fully.



Which ones where commuted and lessened? List them together with the documented reasons for their lessening or commuting.



No it doesn't. This jump to conclusion is about the dumbest leap of faith I've ever seen.



Has any of them ever said there was no holocaust? Cite please.



I don't think you understand what this expression means. Normally when someone says "check and mate" it means they have won an argument. You haven't even put forth a real argument, other than an argument from personal incredulity and an argument from ignorance.




What made the holocaust an genocide of the Jewish (and other) people of Europe was the systematic killing that took place. The killing which is well documented and evidenced, probably more so than any single event in human history.



The knowledge that it actually did happen. I know that you're trying to explain your supreme ignorance, but you don't have to.



The holocaust has changed the German society. They know it happened.

Have you ever read a book in your life? The Bible doesn't count.

Now, please answer the questions I've posed in this post, or I shall take your lack of answer as an admittance that you are completely ignorant of the history you are so desperate to deny.

Ahhh. Another babbling "because why" interrogation.

Already answered by my statement.

 

[ddt]

600 kg - around 12 people daily and 360 kilograms of coke, ie around 30 kilograms of coke per person.

Your estimate of the average weight of a human as gone down from 60 to 50 kg since you posted this on Rodoh a year ago?

Yet these miracle ovens of Birkenau seemed to burn 10 times as many people with only the tenth of the coke used.

The document you cited doesn't actually say the maximum capacity of the animal incinerator is 600 kg. It just assumes the normal operation requires incinerating one cadaver per day.

That implies that for each cadaver, the oven had to be pre-heated again. The Auschwitz crematoria weren't cooled down between burning batches of corpses.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Your estimate of the average weight of a human as gone down from 60 to 50 kg since you posted this on Rodoh a year ago?


The document you cited doesn't actually say the maximum capacity of the animal incinerator is 600 kg. It just assumes the normal operation requires incinerating one cadaver per day.

That implies that for each cadaver, the oven had to be pre-heated again. The Auschwitz crematoria weren't cooled down between burning batches of corpses.

wrong, wrong and wrong.

eines Tieres im Gewicht von etwa 600 kg täglich hintereinander vorgenommen

hintereinander has no implication of allowing the oven to cool down - in fact it quite quite explicitly contradicts it.

You won't use more than 360 kilograms of coke and maximum yield is 600 kg a day - although if you keep opening the furnace to burn smaller amounts you could expect lesser efficiency.

Lets never forget though, that Krema II and III were - as you are well aware - nothing more than bakeries. We are just arguing on whether your forged documentation is even theoretically possible.