Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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"We saw it happen." That's absolutely hilarious.

Any physicist in the world will tell you that if you increase resistance to a falling mass the rate of acceleration of that mass will decrease.
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I'm probably a bit late to the party here, but what you can't seem to see is that every millisecond, the amount of resistance decreases, while at the same time the falling mass increases.

That's kinda important.
 
NoahFence said:
Any physicist in the world will tell you that if you increase resistance to a falling mass the rate of acceleration of that mass will decrease.
Click to expand...

I'm probably a bit late to the party here, but what you can't seem to see is that every millisecond, the amount of resistance decreases, while at the same time the falling mass increases.
Click to expand...

I'm also a bit late to the party, but speaking as a fully paid up member of the set of physicists in the world I'd like to point out the following things:

(1) If, indeed, the resistance to a falling constant mass increases, then the acceleration of that mass will decrease. However, as long as that acceleration remains positive - in other words, as long as the resistance has not become as great as the force on the mass due to gravity - then the downward velocity of the falling mass will continue to increase.

(2) Whether or not the resistance is increasing significantly as the collapse progresses, the falling mass is clearly increasing by the additional amount of structure destroyed by the collapse, less any part of it that is lost by falling outside the footprint of the structure. Since the force due to gravity is proportional to mass, the downward force on the falling mass is therefore increasing.

(3) If the building is properly constructed, the structural strength at any height will be proportional to the weight of the building above that height. The resistance to collapse may, to a first approximation, be estimated to be directly proportional to the structural strength. Therefore, the resistance to collapse increases proportionately to the accumulated falling mass.

(4) As a first approximation, therefore, we expect the resistive force and the gravitational force to increase at roughly the same rate, resulting in a roughly constant acceleration.

That's probably what any competent physicist in the world who understands the agenda behind the question is more likely to say.

Dave
 
Clayton Moore said:
How about a screaming needle?

http://www.inquisitr.com/27038/ir-france-black-box/


http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/blackboxes.html
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Quote:
The FAA has placed durability requirements on the recorders and their casings to survive severe impact and fire

The storage medium of each recorder is located in a protective capsule, which must be able to withstand an impact of 3,400 Gs (3,400 times the force of gravity). Additionally, each must also survive flames at 2,000 F for up to 30 minutes, and submersion in 20,000 feet of saltwater for 30 days. Typically, to increase their chances of survival, the recorders are located in the tail section of the aircraft, which usually sustains the least impact in a crash. 8
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9/11 Truthers - proving themselves wrong since 9/12.
 
000063 said:
Put down those goalposts. You said none of the planes was found. That photo is of part of the planes. You were wrong.

Yeah, it was stealthily smuggled into the crash site from the nearest desert, through New York, over the bridges/on the ferry to Manhattan, where it was planted under tons of debris in a debris site* with cops and FDNY and thousands of news cameras, by the same people who planted the tons of thermite/boom-boom stealthily in an occupied office building in the middle of one of the busiest cities in the world.

*At least, I'm assuming it's Ground Zero, by the shell of the building in the background.
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He said "Kid, we found an envelope with your name on it underneath about a half-a-ton of garbage, and we was just wonderin' if you had any information about it."
I said "Yes sir, Officer Obie, I cannot tell a lie -- I put that envelope underneath that garbage."
 
sylvan8798 said:
If we're going to talk physics, we should talk physics. Feel free to pick it to pieces. Let's start with

Sum Forces = ma.

Taking up as positive, on the forces side we have F(resistance) - mg, and on the negative side ma. Your claim is that F(resistance) changes, so we take some derivatives

dF/dt -m(dg/dt)-g(dm/dt)=m(da/dt)+a(dm/dt)

Now, we can take dg/dt = 0, since the change of g isn't much in the height of the WTC. You contention is that da/dt is also =0 since a is constant at some value less than g.

dF/dt = g(dm/dt) + a(dm/dt) = (g+a)(dm/dt)

Now a is known to be negative (lets call it A as our working value), since we took up as positive, and A is less than g, so we have

dF/dt = (g-A)(dm/dt)

Your contention is that an increase in F (positive dF/dt) HAS to result in an increase in A, however we see that if the mass is changing as it falls (dm/dt is not zero), then it is possible to have an increase in F with constant acceleration. Most of us think the falling mass increases as it progresses. How about you?
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Dave Rogers said:
I'm also a bit late to the party, but speaking as a fully paid up member of the set of physicists in the world I'd like to point out the following things:

(1) If, indeed, the resistance to a falling constant mass increases, then the acceleration of that mass will decrease. However, as long as that acceleration remains positive - in other words, as long as the resistance has not become as great as the force on the mass due to gravity - then the downward velocity of the falling mass will continue to increase.

(2) Whether or not the resistance is increasing significantly as the collapse progresses, the falling mass is clearly increasing by the additional amount of structure destroyed by the collapse, less any part of it that is lost by falling outside the footprint of the structure. Since the force due to gravity is proportional to mass, the downward force on the falling mass is therefore increasing.

(3) If the building is properly constructed, the structural strength at any height will be proportional to the weight of the building above that height. The resistance to collapse may, to a first approximation, be estimated to be directly proportional to the structural strength. Therefore, the resistance to collapse increases proportionately to the accumulated falling mass.

(4) As a first approximation, therefore, we expect the resistive force and the gravitational force to increase at roughly the same rate, resulting in a roughly constant acceleration.

That's probably what any competent physicist in the world who understands the agenda behind the question is more likely to say.
Click to expand...
So they have it in equations and they have it in very plain concise English - what will they do with it now? :rolleyes:
 
One thing they will NEVER do is say, "hey, you know, maybe I don't understand this as much as I thought I did. I should reconsider my position."
 
NoahFence said:
I'm probably a bit late to the party here, but what you can't seem to see is that every millisecond, the amount of resistance decreases, while at the same time the falling mass increases.

That's kinda important.
Click to expand...

Actually the problem with the trutherism you quoted is that we are being told that a physicist will say that the acelleration will decrease with increased "resistance". Generally "resistance" in such a context is a meme of the 911 conspiracy crowd and is not what a physicist would refer to.
He might refer to an opposing force or an opposing acelleration but "resistance", and for that matter "decelleration" are not commonly used in this context.

However, the structural components most closly coupled to the impact forces are the floor pans AND the floors are basically identical from top to bottom (aside from a smattering of mechanical floors).

The collapse propigated as the falling mas impacted the floors, stripped them from their seats on both core and perimeter columns(beginning with approx 30X their ability to transfer loads to the columns), leaving the perimeter without any lateral bracing and leaving the core with only core column to core column lateral bracing. The perimeter column 'trees' then peeled away and outward while the core, also taking extreme amounts of falling debris also collapsed , lagging behind the perimeter somewhat.
 
TjW said:
He said "Kid, we found an envelope with your name on it underneath about a half-a-ton of garbage, and we was just wonderin' if you had any information about it."
I said "Yes sir, Officer Obie, I cannot tell a lie -- I put that envelope underneath that garbage."
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Circles and arrows.............colour glossy photos......the group B bench.....
Yeah, I'm old too!:D
 
Hmm...nothing new from tempesta today. I'm feeling so ignored. Good thing I've gotten used to that..:)
 
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