The Planned Parenthood Controversy

Part of the problem here is the government funding problem. While the anti-abortion whackjobs would be attacking any perceived abortion provider, there would be much less attention. The more reliant an organization becomes on government money, the more it gets sucked into politics.
 
jayh said:
Part of the problem here is the government funding problem. While the anti-abortion whackjobs would be attacking any perceived abortion provider, there would be much less attention. The more reliant an organization becomes on government money, the more it gets sucked into politics.
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There are some places in the world where abortion, birth control, std treatment, cancer screening, etc is included as health care which is provided by and therefore 100% supported by the state. While there are some problems, it's nothing compared to what PP and other family planning centers are facing in the US.
 
I just watched the video documentary Freakanomics. They show a statistical correlation between the dramatic decline in crime and the advent of legalized abortion.

As for the issue itself, I can think of few good reasons to deny an abortion, and none to deny care. Denying abortion should only kick in where issues of advanced pregnancy and/or the mother's health are concerned. The last, which is not philosophical at all is political. There are instances where women are pressured into having an unwanted abortion based on the sex of the child. This is clearly wrong and abortion based on sex should not be allowed, whether it is by the mother's choice or not. Otherwise you will be giving men's and women's political activists the power to affect the balance of the sexes in the population leading to a regime based on power controled by sexism. This would be an abuse of the process of life that reduces people to nothing more than cattle in the eyes of those who would support it. And there are a few who support it, men who feel women should only bear boys and women who think the world would be bettr off without men. It's sad but it's true and neither side is right.

j.r.
 
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bookitty said:
There are some places in the world where abortion, birth control, std treatment, cancer screening, etc is included as health care which is provided by and therefore 100% supported by the state. While there are some problems, it's nothing compared to what PP and other family planning centers are facing in the US.
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But those places are not here. Where the population is fairly docile and pretty much accepts what the government tells them you can get away with that (of course there are places where the government pays medical bills and abortions are illegal... so that's not necessarily a good thing that the government holds all the cards).

Protest occurs all across the political spectrum here... the courts are full of lawsuits from both the left and the right about different activities the government is engaged in.
 
Tricky said:
There are heros among us, doing great deeds in obscurity. PTweedle and family are among them.
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Thanks so much...I'm a huge fan of people in general... ;)) Humans are pretty awesome. Hope to meet you and lots of other fine folks at TAM!!
 
Weak Kitten said:
PP are wonderful, wonderful people. Let us have a moment of silence for those who have given their lives for women's health.

Be they doctor or clinic escorts or any other individual who's life was cut short by a coward's attack, they are truly heroes.
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Doctor Tiller gets shot in both arms and is at WORK the next day...that's my kind of hero. They all need our support...unfortunately for Dr. Tiller...well, all I can do is support those still with us fighting hard to keep women safe and healthy. That's a big job in this INSANE climate.
 
Ziggurat said:
You don't like their values. You are free to argue why yours are better. But your argument that yours are fundamentally different from theirs isn't actually supported by reason , it depends entirely upon unfounded (and apparently unquestioned) assumptions.
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There is a difference.

If I'm pro-choice and I force it down your throat, it doesn't change what you are allowed to do.

If I'm pro-life, and I force it down your throat, it DOES change what you are allowed to do.

One restricts the person not in agreement. The other does not.
 
AmandaM said:
My name is Amanda and I am a real person, not an anecdote. I have been going to Planned Parenthood for both birth control and my annual exams since I was a teenager. When my husband and I were in our 30s, we decided we wanted to have a child. My health insurance did not cover fertility treatments, and after eight years of infertility I mentioned this to the nurse at PP. She gave me a stack of information on fertility and your fertility schedule, recommended over-the-counter fertility tests and an iphone app :) That was in Dec of 2010. In March of 2011 I found out I was FINALLY pregnant.

Without the information supplied to me by PP I most likely would never have gotten pregnant.

They call it "Planned" for a reason.
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Congratulations.
 
Ziggurat said:
So abortion is really what separates modern society from the dark ages?

Really?

Hyperbole much?
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Family planning (birth control and sometimes abortion) is one of the things that allows women to compete equally in modern society. Without family planning, women would have a much harder time finishing college, getting promotions, applying for unpaid internships and all that.

No, I am not saying it is impossible for a woman with a child to do all of these things. Just that many of these things are time/energy intensive and much easier to do if you are not a parent.
 
bookitty said:
Family planning (birth control and sometimes abortion) is one of the things that allows women to compete equally in modern society.
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I don't think the problem that Republicans have with Planned Parenthood is because they give out condoms. Nor would family planning services simply disappear in the absence of Planned Parenthood.

I get that family planning services are a reason that you and others support Planned Parenthood. But the fight here is still about abortion. And when people level accusations like "The Republikers want a return to the dark ages", well, 1) that's just plain hyperbole, and 2) it doesn't help. Not your cause, not anybody's cause.
 
Almo said:
There is a difference.

If I'm pro-choice and I force it down your throat, it doesn't change what you are allowed to do.

If I'm pro-life, and I force it down your throat, it DOES change what you are allowed to do.

One restricts the person not in agreement. The other does not.
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But you aren't actually opposed to restricting what other people can do. Almost NOBODY is (and certainly not Democrats in general). You're only opposed to this particular restriction. Which is fine, and it may be justified. But it's not justified on the grounds that it's a restriction, because again, you're not opposed to restricting what other people can do.
 
Some very depressing numbers
http://www.guttmacher.org/media/inthenews/2011/07/13/index.html

The Republicans are not just targeting abortion. It is also family planning, WIC, health insurance for children, school budgets, after school budgets, job training, college grants. These aren't small cuts, either. The link above focuses on family planning but cuts for everything else are just as bad.

If you are born into a low-income or lower middle-class family, your chance of escaping the cycle of poverty is decreasing and the chance of entering it is increasing. Without proper nutrition in infancy, proper schools in childhood, trade school or college as a young adult, the odds are dramatically against you. For girls, the risk of pregnancy decreases their chances even further and that's before pandering to the religious right gives them abstinence education.

It's easy to see why parallels to the dark ages keep coming up. We've become used to the idea of modern America, the country that takes care of its own, that offers opportunity for all. The dawning realization that America has drifted very far from these lofty ideals draws comparisons to other times when access to knowledge, medicine, food and opportunity was reserved for the ruling classes.
 
Ziggurat said:
I don't think the problem that Republicans have with Planned Parenthood is because they give out condoms. Nor would family planning services simply disappear in the absence of Planned Parenthood.

I get that family planning services are a reason that you and others support Planned Parenthood. But the fight here is still about abortion. And when people level accusations like "The Republikers want a return to the dark ages", well, 1) that's just plain hyperbole, and 2) it doesn't help. Not your cause, not anybody's cause.
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So why do you think Republicans are against both abortion and sex education?
 
Almo said:
There is a difference.

If I'm pro-choice and I force it down your throat, it doesn't change what you are allowed to do.

If I'm pro-life, and I force it down your throat, it DOES change what you are allowed to do.

One restricts the person not in agreement. The other does not.
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Well it depends. If you are prochoice.....I wouldn't say you support putting anything in a persons mouth.... But you do support the right of a person to rip apart another persons skull.
 
Travis said:
So why do you think Republicans are against both abortion and sex education?
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Most opposition to abortion is based on the idea that a fetus is a person. Agree or not, it's hard to see any moral choice but opposition to abortion once that conclusion is reached. And there's nothing particularly "dark ages" about such a belief either.

And I don't think most republicans are against sex education. The opposition which does exist is largely based on the idea that it normalizes promiscuity and under-age sex, both of which are rather widely consider bad even among proponents of sex education. Again, you can disagree with this position, but it's false to claim that this is some sort of effort to revert to the dark ages. It's simply dishonest to make such accusations. And you shouldn't need to resort to such rhetoric, or defend it, in order to make your case.
 
Ziggurat said:
So abortion is really what separates modern society from the dark ages?

Really?

Hyperbole much?
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Title X isn't about abortion. Its about birth control for poor women. Family planning so abortion isn't required nor unplanned and unwanted kids aren't a result.
:mad:
 
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