Materialism (championed by Darwinists) makes reason Impossible.

punshhh said:
.Yes, I was using the words in an Philosophical or theological sense.

I appreciate your point, however we cannot come to this conclusion without making assumptions regarding the purpose of an entity which has created our existence.
We are in the position of having a limited perspective(anthropocentric view) on the issue and cannot realistically make these assumptions.

Anyway, I am not refering to the purpose of a God, rather an innate purpose in nature.

You see for my philosophy the existence of God(or not) is irrelevant, one of those meaningless questions folk accuse me of asking. The existence of creative entities approximating God in their activity is as far as I am concerned a natural process of nature. Their activity in part contributing to the destiny of our little lives is the purpose I am referring to. Which is I assure you no less an influence than that of a so called notional God.
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I suggest you remove the god from your eye and reread my post, :)
 
dafydd said:
What human code? We are latecomers to the scene.
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that's what I was trying to say
what is right in Nature is not right in the modern human society
it is idiotic to try to figure out what is natural to decide what is right or wrong
equally idiotic to try to apply our values to the Nature, the Disney survival of the cutest or the lawyers' justice just does not work there
 
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punshhh:

Suppose we have two universes. In one, my purpose is to build a brick house. In the other, my purpose is to destroy a brick house.

I get a life in each universe, where I live a happy life, and die, without doing either.

What is the difference between the two universes? What is the consequence for not meeting my purpose?

Just to be crystal clear, I'm questioning the very meaning and relevance of purpose, other than one that a person creates himself.
 
Dancing David said:
Again, your teachers have failed you.

Everything I tell you is a lie.


Ideal or material they will behave exactly the same.
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Negative. You can recognize idealistic things from the very fact that they do not respect the laws of nature. Now think about a situation where you tried really really hard to fly. I do not mean like with a balloon or on an aeroplane but like Superman.

What would you be your first thought if you succeeded?
"I must be dreaming"

right?
 
Dancing David said:
But if the world has design and meaning outside of that humans assign to it, the there is some very sick and twisted ****.

It looks chaotic, it looks as though it is undesigned.

Without spiritual meaning genocide and rape are easier to accept, if there is spiritual meaning then it is one sick ass sadistic bastard.
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I see two references to a **** God in there am I wrong?
 
yy2bggggs said:
punshhh:

Suppose we have two universes. In one, my purpose is to build a brick house. In the other, my purpose is to destroy a brick house.

I get a life in each universe, where I live a happy life, and die, without doing either.

What is the difference between the two universes? What is the consequence for not meeting my purpose?

Just to be crystal clear, I'm questioning the very meaning and relevance of purpose, other than one that a person creates himself.
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I am using purpose in a different way, there is no destiny or determinism in there.

The bolded part is closer to my meaning, a person can create their own purpose, why not also a creator god, why not a universe(if regarded as an entity).

For example, say a god had an itch in a region occupied by our universe. His purpose is to relieve the itch, this purpose might have big repercussions for us. A universe in a region without an itch might be a very different place.
 
punshhh said:
your presuming to know what my teachers have imparted.

unlikely




Perhaps that is the perception, the ideal and the material are mental constructs. I come to this from a different perspective.
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My ideal hammer couldn't hit my material nails.
 
tsig said:
My ideal hammer couldn't hit my material nails.
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Wrong.
That exactly is the power of human reasoning.
I can hit material nails with various idealistic hammers without making a move.
I can create the what-if sequence in my head and go and make the best imaginable hammer to hit that very specific material nail.
Mentally first, then on paper (or whatever) and then out of the suitable material.

What sets us apart is the ability to create weightless, measureless hammers and test them in our heads against the ideas we have absorbed from the material world.

That's what engineering and architecture is all about.
You blind or something?

Sorry, tarsiers are not blind, you are night creatures. Do you fabricate tools?
 
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lemurien said:
Negative. You can recognize idealistic things from the very fact that they do not respect the laws of nature. Now think about a situation where you tried really really hard to fly. I do not mean like with a balloon or on an aeroplane but like Superman.

What would you be your first thought if you succeeded?
"I must be dreaming"

right?
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Ideal in the sense that immaterialists reference the world made of 'godthought', dreaming to me is a subset of materialism.

It is up to them to make sense of it.
 
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punshhh said:
I see two references to a **** God in there am I wrong?
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No, you see god where I did not intend, seriously there is no god in my statement a bastard is a neutral pronoun and does not imply any diety, the **** is another neutral placeholder noun often called poop.

No god in either of those, if there is intent it is indifferent.
 
punshhh said:
your presuming to know what my teachers have imparted.

unlikely
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Considering your use of the words meaning and purpose and existence, my point is made.
Muwhahaha
Perhaps that is the perception, the ideal and the material are mental constructs. I come to this from a different perspective.
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Um this is where the usage of the words break down
-dancing energy
-godthought
-brains in vats
-butterfly dreams

There is no way to distinguish them ontologically. Moot, mu.
 
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lemurien said:
Wrong.
That exactly is the power of human reasoning.
I can hit material nails with various idealistic hammers without making a move.
I can create the what-if sequence in my head and go and make the best imaginable hammer to hit that very specific material nail.
Mentally first, then on paper (or whatever) and then out of the suitable material.

What sets us apart is the ability to create weightless, measureless hammers and test them in our heads against the ideas we have absorbed from the material world.

That's what engineering and architecture is all about.
You blind or something?

Sorry, tarsiers are not blind, you are night creatures. Do you fabricate tools?
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Guess I'll never hire you as a carpenter since I'd prefer someone who'd actually swings a hammer than someone who just talks about it.

Engineering and architecture are all about making it work in the material world. You seem to be mistaking the plans for the building.
 
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