Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Christopher7 said:
He overreacted. No worries. The damage looked bad but it was not structurally significant. He said he talked to an engineer. That engineer should have known that the debris damage was not the serious enough to prevent firefighters from entering the building.
Click to expand...

Oh dear.
a) Why, just why should the engineer have known that? Because years later, the NIST determined that the debris damage was not enough? Are you saying you are more qualified to make that assessment? Were you there? Was the decision yours?
b) Aren't you forgetting a little something? Again? Ah yes you are: THE FIRES! Man, they did not make that decision based on the debris damage alone, and maybe not even primarily due to it. They made it based on debris damage AND fires AND lack of water.

Christopher7 said:
By 1:00 p.m. they had water and personnel to fight the fire in WTC 7. See post 8202.
Click to expand...

But neither the priority, nor the need to risk any more lives.
 
Christopher7 said:
Only to someone who cannot see the obvious connection. I will explain it for you.

If a firefighter "goes against the PTB" and speaks out, they could loose their pension or worse - like Serpico.

ETA: Before you say it, I know Serpico did not lose his pension, he just got shot in the face because his back up didn't back him up.
Click to expand...

So the firefighters sold out their dead brothers for a pension check?
 
Serpico knew he could loose his pension or worse if he went through with his whistle blowing, yet he did it anyway. Earth's history is FILLED--before and since--with the exact same situation, with countless people risking it all, and paying the price, for coming forward, all around the world.

Why not now?

In the real world there are people with morals and scruples who would do exactly what Serpico and countless others have done even knowing the consequences. Only in bizzaro truther world is everybody a coward and willing to let mass murderers go free so they won't loose their pensions.
 
Last edited:
twinstead said:
...
Only in bizzaro truther world is everybody a coward and willing to let mass murderers go free so they won't loose their pensions.
Click to expand...

I debated a truther from Dallas, Texas, for a few weeks earlier this year. Starting point was the AE911T petition. When I showed him that not a single strcutural or civil engineer from Dallas, of which there are more than 700, has signed that petition, I dared him to present his case not to me but to engineers from Dallas. His reason for not doing that was: They are all dependent on state money and would never dare to speak out. So basically, he said that out of 700 engineers in Dallas, Texas, 700 (100%) are cowards. He agreed, and we later extended that conjecture to the entire population of Texas. Apparently, there is not a single courageous person in all of the Lone Star state!
On top of that, I learned that nearly everybody in Dallas, and in Texas, is stupid and ill-educated.
Not sure if he exempted himself from that sweeping allegation of cowardice and stupidity.
 
You subject shifted from "no water available" to "the building looked unsalvageable".
Click to expand...

*Facepalm.....

There was no water available.
Because it was being used for higher priorities.
WTC 7 was not a high priority
Because.....?



(it was unsalvagable - and empty)
 
I have enough money in my checking account to buy that delightful Harley Davidson I've always wanted, but alas I need it for food, clothing, and the mortgage.

C7 doesn't understand why I don't just go buy that Harley.
 
Mikey T said:
It was like a war zone down there after the towers collapsed, everyone one of those rescue workers were doing their best in a situation that no one had ever experienced, and possibly the worst single rescue situation since those who first arrived at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In terms of some natural disasters there may be several that rival, but as far as a man-made destructive occurance, these were the worst.

You seem to be stuck on this fantasy of an ultra elite fireman rescue effort where everyone was in perfect sychronicity, all communication was timely and perfect, where there were no concerns of further attacks, no problems with men and equippment getting to the site in a blink of an eye, no one was in shock of what just happened, yada, yada, yada....
Click to expand...

Yes, but you have to understand that truthers operate to a higher standard of competency than the rest of us. This is why, when they first realised that 9/11 was an inside job, they leapt into action, concerted and co-ordinated, and within days had laid the groundwork for the mass movement that would eventually demand a new enquiry. Not for them the false starts and occasional mis-steps that the rescue workers made when faced with minor problems like collapsing buildings, thousands of deaths, widespread fires, fractured water mains and the ever-present fear of yet more and yet worse attacks; the truth movement dealt with the infinitely greater threat posed by a New York tour guide on an obscure Internet discussion forum, and even that couldn't stop them getting their new enquiry. By now, as we all know, as a result of their unstoppable determination and rigorous competence, the true culprits within the US government are now dead, or behind bars. And all because, unlike the rescue workers at Ground Zero, the truthers quite simply got everything right, every time, despite impossible circumstances.

Oh, wait...

Dave
 
FatFreddy88 said:
The proof that 9/11 was an inside job is crushing.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

There are probably lots of people who haven't seen the evidence yet as it can only be seen on the internet. There are also always going to be people who just believe what they want to be true and ignore all evidence. I suppose there isn't much truthers can do to sway them.
http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm
Click to expand...

'Inside Job' can mean many things.

Can you provide a potted summary of what you believe the true events are and what is the most compelling piece of evidence (in your words, not a link please)?
 
FatFreddy88 said:
The proof that 9/11 was an inside job is crushing.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

There are probably lots of people who haven't seen the evidence yet as it can only be seen on the internet. There are also always going to be people who just believe what they want to be true and ignore all evidence. I suppose there isn't much truthers can do to sway them.
http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm
Click to expand...

Having just read the first few posts of the first link, the thread suggests that CT is fiction. The second link is irrelevant. But you are right. The CT people will ignore all evidence and believe what they want to be true.
 
FatFreddy88 said:
The proof that 9/11 was an inside job is crushing.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

There are probably lots of people who haven't seen the evidence yet as it can only be seen on the internet. There are also always going to be people who just believe what they want to be true and ignore all evidence. I suppose there isn't much truthers can do to sway them.
http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm
Click to expand...

And this is another common truther fallacy on 2 fronts: that the common person just "needs to see the evidence" and that 9/11 truth is being suppressed by mainstream media.

As I have stated, there is no evidence on the Truther side that has not been shown to be anything but misdirection, misstatements or outright deception. If you have something new, please present here or where it should be; on Mackey's "Lost In Space" thread and please link to there. But if the best you have to offer after 10 years is "free fall" and the inaccurate claim of "symmetrical collapse", then you are far short of even proving WTC 7 was a demolition, let alone a full scale conspiracy.

And if the MSM is controlled by evil doers who perpetrated 9/11, please explain to me:
WMD's
Monica Lewinsky
Iran Contra
Watergate

and about 100 other stories where reporters have blown the lid off government illegalities.
 
twinstead said:
Serpico knew he could loose his pension or worse if he went through with his whistle blowing, yet he did it anyway. Earth's history is FILLED--before and since--with the exact same situation, with countless people risking it all, and paying the price, for coming forward, all around the world.
Click to expand...

Certainly a bright and rational person would know that allowing corruption to go unopposed is a losing propostition. Sooner or later, you may just try to do your job and find out that you have run afoul of the corrupt element within the government. You may be a victim of one of the criminals left unpunished.

Some, but not all cops are there because they specificly want to fight corruption or right some other social wrong.

And some are just in it for the money and the feeling of empowerment. Some of them want a cut of the swag, a piece of the action, if you will. But fire fighters are a different sort of being entirely, in my experience.

I doubt that there are an awful lot of fire fighters who chose that line of work because it offers an opportunity for graft on anything like the same scale that being a cop would. I got into it while I was in the Air Foirce specificly becauser I viewed it as a humanitarian thing to do, avoiding any qual of conscience whioch might have bothered me because of my views on the morality of what we were doing in Vietnam.

It is also a challenging job and provided a lot of opportunities for self-examination, opportunities to push you own limits and to know who and what you really are. I will just ask those who have their doubts about me to take my word on this one thing: The second time that you stand, fully suited up and holding a chareged foam line on the edge of a pool of hundreds of gallons of burning jet fuel, and you step off into that maelstrom just for driull, you have probably answered all the important questions about who and what you are. You have little left to prove to or about yourself.

Of course, there are also those who are actually psycopathic adrenaline junkies who know that it is dangerous, but figure they have the skills to come out the other side unscathed, but also realize that **** happens. Nothing to get upset about, if it just happens because somebody screwed up. But if it happens because somebody wanted somebody to get hurt, well, getting that person off the street is a high priority.

Doing things right is the only viable option.

Keeping quite because of a pension is too clearly wrong and not conducive to one's living long enough to collect that pension anyway.

And if one of the big beneficiaries of keeping silent about things that might suggest corruption or criminal activities is someone like Rotten Rudy, there is just not that much motivation to go alng with it.
 
There are probably lots of people who haven't seen the evidence yet as it can only be seen on the internet.
Click to expand...

Dead on!

As soon as this interwebs stuff gets going, I predict a lot of people are going to be using it. I mean, A LOT!




*Stundied*
 
Last edited:
FatFreddy88 said:
The proof that 9/11 was an inside job is crushing.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

There are probably lots of people who haven't seen the evidence yet as it can only be seen on the internet. There are also always going to be people who just believe what they want to be true and ignore all evidence. I suppose there isn't much truthers can do to sway them.
http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm
Click to expand...

When did the definition of evidence change to mean "cynical delusion and fantasy"?



Sorry.......I forgot we were talking troofer world.
 
NoahFence said:
*Facepalm.....

There was no water available.
Because it was being used for higher priorities.
WTC 7 was not a high priority
Because.....?



(it was unsalvagable - and empty)
Click to expand...

Because... nearby 343 of their firefighter brothers and sisters, 60 cops, 15 EMTs and more than 2,000 civilians were buried and dead in the ruble that once was the World Trade Center.
 
Thing to remember is that "teh webz" form an intangible universe parallel to meatspace reality. Yes, sometimes meatspace events are discussed in the parallel universe, but the parallel universe doesn't significantly affect the meatspace universe. But because we engage with the parallel universe with the awesome power of human imagination, we THINK the stuff here is relevant.

The internet, in other words, is like dropping acid. Stuff that seemed SO profound while tripping/surfing doesn't mean jack when it's time to feed the kids and wash the dog.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom