General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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Darth Rotor said:
What? I missed something in the story. At one point, Greece was offering to act as shipping agent. Was that offered declined? :confused:
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The flotillas refused the offer.

Oh, and the "Israeli sabotage" to the boat in Turkey? Turkey says there's no evidence at all the boat was sabotaged.
 
WildCat said:
The flotillas refused the offer.

Oh, and the "Israeli sabotage" to the boat in Turkey? Turkey says there's no evidence at all the boat was sabotaged.
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One man's boat that wasn't sabotaged, is a another man's boat that was sabotaged.
 
Virus said:
One man's boat that wasn't sabotaged, is a another man's boat that was sabotaged.
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When the impeller broke on my friend's boat several years ago we figured it was just one of those things... but maybe it was the Jews?
 
Pardalis said:
Biker Druid is against the killing of "innocents", but since we all know he thinks the Jews are "guilty" of stealing Palestinian land (which would make them not "innocents"), so therefore he is perfectly happy to give his support to Hamas and their genocidal policy.

He's found a semantic loophole.
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this is wrong.
the problem was created when the allies gave palestinain territory to form the state of israel in the first place.
this was clearly not a case of 'jews stealing palestinian land'.
then the state of israel agreed that the west bank. east jerusalem and gaza would be palestinian land.
now the state of israle have been stealing back that land ever since.
again, this is the state of israel doing this. there are many jews in israel that disapprove of their governments actions in this regard.
therefore, it is the state of israel, and not the jews stealing palestinian land.
is that clear enough for you?:cool:
 
Praktik said:
Yes please, let's find out if he supports the killing of jews...

<rubs chin soberly>
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as you can see in this thread, there are some that just cannot process thought correctly.
it must be a form of mental glitch.
when i say, "i despise the treatment of palestinians by the state of israel," they hear, "i want to kill jews."
and there is no way that they can fit the thought in their tiny little minds, that is possible to disapprove of the state of israel, without hating jews.

so, no...i do not approve of the killing of innocents, jews, muslims, christians or anyone.
 
Pardalis said:
While BikerDruid goes searching for the agreement, here's ol' Ricky Falk, the UN's rapporteur of the Palestinian territories and known 9/11 conspiracy theorist who's been caught posting an antisemitic cartoon on his blog.

http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1314451&ct=10897033

Such nice people at the UN.
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A follow-up, the story was commented on in the National Post.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/07/07/gabriel-latner-the-failings-of-richard-falk/

Let's hope that idiot Falk gets fired ASAP.
Maybe Falk had a momentary lapse of reason. Sometimes even simple cartoons can be difficult to understand, especially for someone who is a professor at Princeton with a doctorate from Harvard University who has written dozens of books and articles dealing with complex legal and political issues.

But then I remembered that this was Richard Falk, a UN expert charged with investigating serious allegations of human-rights abuses in the Middle East. How could someone who failed to find offense in such a slanderous cartoon be expected to deal with the subtleties of the conflicts in Israel? How could he possibly be able to perceive the implications of a Hamas TV show that features Mickey Mouse teaching children how to be suicide bombers? Or comprehend the not-so-subtle discrepancies between what Hamas leaders say in Arabic, and what they say they said in English?
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He clearly cannot complete his functions as an impartial rapporteur to the UN on the most important issue in the Middle East.
 
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bikerdruid said:
this is wrong.
the problem was created when the allies gave palestinain territory to form the state of israel in the first place.
this was clearly not a case of 'jews stealing palestinian land'.
then the state of israel agreed that the west bank. east jerusalem and gaza would be palestinian land.
now the state of israle have been stealing back that land ever since.
again, this is the state of israel doing this. there are many jews in israel that disapprove of their governments actions in this regard.
therefore, it is the state of israel, and not the jews stealing palestinian land.
is that clear enough for you?:cool:
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Oh how convenient that your history starts half way through the issue instead of the beginning. Let's ignore that part which makes it so inconvenient.

The allies didn't give any territory to Israel. Yes at one point Israel agreed that west bank, east J, and gaza would be Palestinian land even though it was originally theirs and before X amount of attacks on them.

You don't seem to have a problem when the Palestinians stole the land from the Jews do you? But after Israel concedes land to defeat, and then get attacked and take it back, THEN you have a problem. You don't have a problem with the Arabs getting 75% of Palestine and the Jews getting 25%. You don't have a problem when the Arabs deemed 75% too little an attacked the Jews and took most of that 25%.

The Jews started with everything West of the Jordan river, now they have only a fraction. And it's STILL not good enough. If the Jews gave back all the land that the Palestinians claim is theirs, then it STILL would not be good enough. How much land do they have to keep giving up? Well that's easy. We go back to the "Drive the Jews into the Sea" campaign which helped started this mess.

Oh but wait, the Palestinians were always there and the Jews moved in on their land right? WRONG. You know there's a reason why you can't find hardly any old Palestinians who have grand parents from there. Even Arafat was from Egypt. People have bought into this complete lie that the Palestinians always lived there and one day the Jews came along and horded their land. It's an outright lie. The reason people have this misconception is because the land area is referred to as Palestine and the people in those refugee areas are referred to as Palestinians. They are NOT Palestinians, they are all from other countries.
 
Pardalis said:
But do you think the Jews living in Israel are innocent, that is the question.
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is that really a serious question??:boggled:....wow.
like any other group of people, most just want to live, raise their families in peace, and live comfortably and safely.
most people are decent people.
so yes, most israeli jews, like their palestians counterparts, are innocents.
 
Jonnyclueless said:
Oh how convenient that your history starts half way through the issue instead of the beginning. Let's ignore that part which makes it so inconvenient.

The allies didn't give any territory to Israel. Yes at one point Israel agreed that west bank, east J, and gaza would be Palestinian land even though it was originally theirs and before X amount of attacks on them.

You don't seem to have a problem when the Palestinians stole the land from the Jews do you? But after Israel concedes land to defeat, and then get attacked and take it back, THEN you have a problem. You don't have a problem with the Arabs getting 75% of Palestine and the Jews getting 25%. You don't have a problem when the Arabs deemed 75% too little an attacked the Jews and took most of that 25%.

The Jews started with everything West of the Jordan river, now they have only a fraction. And it's STILL not good enough. If the Jews gave back all the land that the Palestinians claim is theirs, then it STILL would not be good enough. How much land do they have to keep giving up? Well that's easy. We go back to the "Drive the Jews into the Sea" campaign which helped started this mess.

Oh but wait, the Palestinians were always there and the Jews moved in on their land right? WRONG. You know there's a reason why you can't find hardly any old Palestinians who have grand parents from there. Even Arafat was from Egypt. People have bought into this complete lie that the Palestinians always lived there and one day the Jews came along and horded their land. It's an outright lie. The reason people have this misconception is because the land area is referred to as Palestine and the people in those refugee areas are referred to as Palestinians. They are NOT Palestinians, they are all from other countries.
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Johhny, lately you have been giving us some long lectures on History and unfortunately you largely get things wrong......

can I just take one example.

"The Jews started with everything West of the Jordan river" where on earth did you get this one from?
 
bikerdruid said:
yes...the west bank, east jerusalem and gaza are palestinian land, in a treaty signed by israel over 40 years ago, that they have absolutely ignored.
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Which treaty was that? And like in the other thread, how convenient of you to start only 40 years ago instead of the beginning. Oh and was this treaty before the Palestinians and every surrounding country declared war on Israel?

None of that land actually belongs to the Palestinians. It belongs to the Jews and was given to them to begin with. The Jews decided to share anyways, yet that wasn't good enough for the Arabs and so went the "Drive the Jews into the Sea" campaign.

But let's pretend Israel just popped into existence 40 years ago and that before that it was a bunch of Palestinians there minding their own business. Let's pretend that that land was not diseased swamp land that no one else wanted until the Jews came and cleaned it up and made it livable.
 
The Fool said:
Johhny, lately you have been giving us some long lectures on History and unfortunately you largely get things wrong......

can I just take one example.

"The Jews started with everything West of the Jordan river" where on earth did you get this one from?
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So I am wrong, but you want to know where I got that from. I will be happy to tell you just as soon as you tell me why it's wrong (actually I will tell you why regardless, but I would like to see your answer first).
 
The flotillas refused the offer.
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Hmm, given the cock up that is Greece (economy/currency), and its government (self explanatory), perhaps the flotilla leader has good reason to be wary of their assistance.

The aid might end up in ... uh... Greece?
 
Jonnyclueless said:
Which treaty was that? And like in the other thread, how convenient of you to start only 40 years ago instead of the beginning. Oh and was this treaty before the Palestinians and every surrounding country declared war on Israel?

None of that land actually belongs to the Palestinians. It belongs to the Jews and was given to them to begin with. The Jews decided to share anyways, yet that wasn't good enough for the Arabs and so went the "Drive the Jews into the Sea" campaign.

But let's pretend Israel just popped into existence 40 years ago and that before that it was a bunch of Palestinians there minding their own business. Let's pretend that that land was not diseased swamp land that no one else wanted until the Jews came and cleaned it up and made it livable.
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there is a distinct echo in here.:rolleyes:
 
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