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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Re: Wechert.

Three words: nothing but conjecture. Two words: Harry Wentritt. One word: Fail.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/19420605-rauff-spezialwagen/. Weckert claims the vans "could have been" used to delouse its cargo of humans. Setting aside no documentary support for such an idea, since when is CO used for this purpose? What "thin liquids" would be produced in such an application so that special consideration had to be paid to drainage?
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There are 2 sides to every story.
The Earth is not flat.

I Saw:
See "Gas Vans A Critical Assessment of the Evidence" by Ingrid Weckertwww.codoh.com/found/fndwagon.html
Listed as the first footnote in the second part of the Gassing Vans fact sheet, referenced above, and found at the HDOT website here:
http://www.hdot.org/en/learning/myth-fact/gasvans2

Where the author of the fact sheet wrote, among other things:
"The letters about the gas vans are not "uncertain" or "dubious" and they are not forged. The Holocaust deniers fail to tell their readers the whole story. The testimonies of the men who designed, built and used the gas vans corroborate the information in them."
For whose benefit did you post that Weckert link? Mine? The lurkers? When will you start telling us something we don't already know? This Weckert screed doesn't stack up. It didn't work in your favor when it was published and it certainly doesn't make sense to float it again after it was conclusively debunked in print years ago.

Do you want to heave the existing comments from prior JREF threads mentioning Weckert in here? Do you want to post comments of your own?

Are you perhaps content that this thread was bumped and that you were able to post a link? That seems to be all you do, Mondial? Really, for whose benefit?
 
These questions are excellent. I would add to them the question why deniers, like Ingrid Weckert, use sources selectively and dishonestly, as is apparent from the HDOT commentary on the article which Mondial linked to. And also inquire what deniers make of the litany of distortions their gurus saddle them with.
 
These questions are excellent. I would add to them the question why deniers, like Ingrid Weckert, use sources selectively and dishonestly, as is apparent from the HDOT commentary on the article which Mondial linked to. And also inquire what deniers make of the litany of distortions their gurus saddle them with.
I wonder if the forum posters concerned could explore, for example, Richard J. Evans' observations about "Ingrid Weckert's" political leanings in a.o. Telling lies for Hitler , before addressing those points you add?
 
There are 2 sides to every story. See "Gas Vans A Critical Assessment of the Evidence" by Ingrid Weckert www.codoh.com/found/fndwagon.html

No there are not. Many times there are lots of sides to the story and sometimes there is only one. Just because you have an opinion does not mean you have a seat at the table. The crank lobby can ape scholarship all they want but that doesn't mean they have validity.
 
The Earth is not flat.

I Saw:

Listed as the first footnote in the second part of the Gassing Vans fact sheet, referenced above, and found at the HDOT website here:
http://www.hdot.org/en/learning/myth-fact/gasvans2

Where the author of the fact sheet wrote, among other things:
"The letters about the gas vans are not "uncertain" or "dubious" and they are not forged. The Holocaust deniers fail to tell their readers the whole story. The testimonies of the men who designed, built and used the gas vans corroborate the information in them."

Could you be more specific on these men? Do their number include the SS gentleman who subsequently ended up working for Mossad and then retired to Chile to live out a pleasant and undisturbed retirement - occasionally providing the odd affidavit at the West German embassy for Ludwigsburg?
 
Could you be more specific on these men? Do their number include the SS gentleman who subsequently ended up working for Mossad and then retired to Chile to live out a pleasant and undisturbed retirement - occasionally providing the odd affidavit at the West German embassy for Ludwigsburg?
Why do you want to know? Do you perhaps think that section of the current version of the "Walter Rauff" article on Wikipedia isn't long enough? You can edit those yourself, you know.

Scrolling down from the part about his involvement in "Gas van engineering" you eventually come to "Spy officer in the Middle East" where it says, among other things:
"Before sailing for Ecuador (December 1949), Rauff is said to have worked for a while with the Israeli intelligence. In 1949 Israeli secret agent Edmond "Ted" Cross wanted to send Rauff to Egypt. The idea was the utilization of former Nazi elements for observation and penetration in the Arab countries. This attempt having failed, Edmond Cross also helped Rauff to get the necessary papers for immigration to South America."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Rauff

There is an edit button right next to each section and at the top of the article. Be sure to source your edits otherwise someone might add a [citation needed] tag to your changes, revise them or revert them altogether.

Edit:
Here is the Wiki article about General Isshii of the of the "Epidemic Prevention and Water Purification Department of the Kwantung Army". I find it instructive on a non-nazi use of euphemistic language and the outrageously mild and unethical post-genocide treatment of clearly guilty as hell war criminals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirō_Ishii
 
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Which means it's okay for the top Holocaust spokespersons to be pathological liars but if you call them on it you're an anti-Semite or a Nazi.
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Speaking of lies, how's it going finding a single lie on THHP?

Got that raw data from Krege yet?
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From time to time you put links in your comments. On the surface they appear as attempts to illustrate some ill-explained point. When I visit your links and click around inside the sites you pick I find that they host the protocols of the elders of zion and other such materials? Is that a coincidence? Do you inadvertently keep picking such sites at random and then accidentally give the impression that you support their content? I don't have the illusion I'm the first who noticed. Do you?

There are many members here who have been registered for years. When I go back and check older threads I see that they once commented on Holocaust denial related topics. You post the same material over and over again. It failed to convince and often brings no more than heckles. The vast majority of those who once commented didn't even bother with this thread. Why do you? For whose benefit?

Why don't you respond when asked to explain your choice of websites? Why don't you respond when asked if you agree with the materials the websites' creators advocate? Would it not be better to distance yourself from such material if it were indeed an unfortunate clumsiness in selecting references on your part?

You were asked specifically by several people why you picked a particular site when you posted a photo related to Dachau. Why didn't you link to the site of the Dachau memorial where the photo is placed in the context of the story you ostensibly wanted to bring to our attention? It is one of the centerpieces of an ongoing exhibition designed specifically to bring that aspect of camp life in the closing days of the 12 year reich to our attention. Why didn't you direct people to [Photograph #17017] at the website of the USHHM where it is once again placed in historical context? Given that both these sites provide considerably more background information on the specific story of each of these few pregnant women who gave birth and survived -that is completely lacking at the site you picked- would that not have worked better if your intention had indeed been to explore the circumstances surrounding the birth of their babies in that "Kaufering" sub-camp of Dachau?

You'll have to explain your objections more clearly because to me at least they aren't as obvious as you like to pretend them to be.

If you had written in a comment what that site you picked hosts, your comment would have been split to Aah. Are you skirting the JREF rules but nevertheless sympathetic to the anti-semitc sentiments expressed or is it all a misunderstanding of what you try to say here? If not a misunderstanding, there is good reason why you are informed what the consequences would be for stating such things combined with your repeated claims of others lying.

Back to the timeline you've been asked to provide several times. Put a date on it and indicate what if any influence Holocaust deniers had on each of the following:
Photographers take pictures of the Kaufering born babies. Is such a photographer part of the old Holocaust or the new?
Publication of a book like: "Mothers, Sisters, Resisters: Oral Histories of Women Who Survived the Holocaust (Judaic Studies Series) by Brana Grunewitch. The photo is used in the book. Does that publication fit the old or the new Holocaust narrative?
USHMM uploading that photograph to their image database and providing captions which identify a.o. when and where the photograph was taken - is that old or new Holocaust?
USHMM uploading photos of the women and children later in life from a.o. things the private collections of these women.
Ongoing Exhibition at Dachau including that photograph - same question - old or new Holocaust?

Don't play word games. These examples show that many people don't see the obstacles you claim are obvious. If you were able to explain what you see in more detail and without resorting to linking to websites with dubious -and indeed often outrageously anti-semitic- content you might find a more receptive audience here. To a lot of people it has become obvious that you can't do it. In fact, many of your critics have come to the conclusion years ago that "you" don't want to do it. Distancing yourselves from such material would take the point out of the exercise in futility for you, wouldn't it? In many cases the protests sound pretty hollow but you don't even try very hard.

See for example the link Wroclaw posted above exposing the "Kristallnacht" treatment by old and new nazis. Put that on your timeline as well. Exposed in 1938 & 2007. Unchanged in 2011. Does it fit? If not, why not?
 
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From time to time you put links in your comments. On the surface they appear as attempts to illustrate some ill-explained point. When I visit your links and click around inside the sites you pick I find that they host the protocols of the elders of zion and other such materials? Is that a coincidence? Do you inadvertently keep picking such sites at random and then accidentally give the impression that you support their content? I don't have the illusion I'm the first who noticed. Do you?

There are many members here who have been registered for years. When I go back and check older threads I see that they once commented on Holocaust denial related topics. You post the same material over and over again. It failed to convince and often brings no more than heckles. The vast majority of those who once commented didn't even bother with this thread. Why do you? For whose benefit?

Why don't you respond when asked to explain your choice of websites? Why don't you respond when asked if you agree with the materials the websites' creators advocate? Would it not be better to distance yourself from such material if it were indeed an unfortunate clumsiness in selecting references on your part?

You were asked specifically by several people why you picked a particular site when you posted a photo related to Dachau. Why didn't you link to the site of the Dachau memorial where the photo is placed in the context of the story you ostensibly wanted to bring to our attention? It is one of the centerpieces of an ongoing exhibition designed specifically to bring that aspect of camp life in the closing days of the 12 year reich to our attention. Why didn't you direct people to [Photograph #17017] at the website of the USHHM where it is once again placed in historical context? Given that both these sites provide considerably more background information on the specific story of each of these few pregnant women who gave birth and survived -that is completely lacking at the site you picked- would that not have worked better if your intention had indeed been to explore the circumstances surrounding the birth of their babies in that "Kaufering" sub-camp of Dachau?

You'll have to explain your objections more clearly because to me at least they aren't as obvious as you like to pretend them to be.

If you had written in a comment what that site you picked hosts, your comment would have been split to Aah. Are you skirting the JREF rules but nevertheless sympathetic to the anti-semitc sentiments expressed or is it all a misunderstanding of what you try to say here? If not a misunderstanding, there is good reason why you are informed what the consequences would be for stating such things combined with your repeated claims of others lying.

Back to the timeline you've been asked to provide several times. Put a date on it and indicate what if any influence Holocaust deniers had on each of the following:
Photographers take pictures of the Kaufering born babies. Is such a photographer part of the old Holocaust or the new?
Publication of a book like: "Mothers, Sisters, Resisters: Oral Histories of Women Who Survived the Holocaust (Judaic Studies Series) by Brana Grunewitch. The photo is used in the book. Does that publication fit the old or the new Holocaust narrative?
USHMM uploading that photograph to their image database and providing captions which identify a.o. when and where the photograph was taken - is that old or new Holocaust?
USHMM uploading photos of the women and children later in life from a.o. things the private collections of these women.
Ongoing Exhibition at Dachau including that photograph - same question - old or new Holocaust?

Don't play word games. These examples show that many people don't see the obstacles you claim are obvious. If you were able to explain what you see in more detail and without resorting to linking to websites with dubious -and indeed often outrageously anti-semitic- content you might find a more receptive audience here. To a lot of people it has become obvious that you can't do it. In fact, many of your critics have come to the conclusion years ago that "you" don't want to do it. Distancing yourselves from such material would take the point out of the exercise in futility for you, wouldn't it? In many cases the protests sound pretty hollow but you don't even try very hard.

See for example the link Wroclaw posted above exposing the "Kristallnacht" treatment by old and new nazis. Put that on your timeline as well. Exposed in 1938 & 2007. Unchanged in 2011. Does it fit? If not, why not?

You have 232 posts and I'm supposed to explain to you?

My points aren't rocket science. Pointing out what so and so said on page 86 won't be a deal breaker, a revelation that the Holocaust was 6 million, 10 million, 4 million, or 1.5 million.

My points show that sheer volume of alleged murders/executions make the Holocaust myth absurd if only by exaggeration.

Then there is the added absurdity of the Holocaust scholars demanding in the sixties and later that no one knew what was going in the camps then later doing a 180 and demanding that everyone knew and looked away.

And then there are all the testimony absurdities that bludgeon the sensibilities of any objective reader. Atop all those absurd testimonies are those by Wiesel and Wiesenthal the two most lauded Jewish men associated with the Holocaust. Both recognized as pathological liars....

And of course there is the immense power of the Holocaust lie(s) in spite of the Holocaust's biggest lie, gas chambers, never being mentioned in the post war writings of Churchill, Eisenhower, and de Gaulle.
 
Then where have the jews gone in your opinion?

Why is the WWII deathtoll of the jews, percentage wise, so much greater then those of other people groups?
 
You have 232 posts and I'm supposed to explain to you?
You might as well give it a try. I mean. Who else is left to explain it to? That was in fact one of the main questions. Who are you addressing and who benefits from your "contributions"?

And, no, the rest of your comment didn't come close to offering an explanation or even an accurate time line. None of your comments in this entire thread offer such info either and sad as that may sound I read them all.

Do you agree with the content of the links you post or not?
 
Then where have the jews gone in your opinion?

Why is the WWII deathtoll of the jews, percentage wise, so much greater then those of other people groups?
See that, ClaytonMoore? Not the first time Erwinl asked those questions either - nor was he the first to ask them. Not even in this thread.

Remember this one?
"... "En als iemand het dan nog niet wil geloven, vraag ik hem doodeenvoudig waar dan mijn moeder is en mijn vader , mijn broers en de tienduizenden anderen."
That's how that question was phrased in the book "Eindstation Auschwitz" [Auschwitz Terminal] by Eduard de Wind published in 1945

Aantal slachtoffers van de Tweede Wereldoorlog in Nederland. [Number of victims of the second world war in the Netherlands]:
Militairen [military] 4570
Koopvaardij [merchant marine] 1492,
Getroffenen door bombardement e.d. [bombardment etc] 20400
Daling volksgezondheid [reduced public health] 65000
Executies en standrecht [executions and summary justice] 2000
Jodenvervolging [persecution of Jews] 104000
Arbeitseinsatz 10000
Concentratie kampen en gevangenissen [concetrationcamps and prisons]
a) In Nederland [In the Netherlands] 1500
b) In Duitsland [In Germany] 10000
Hongerwinter 1944/45 [starvation winter 1944/1934] 20000
Krijgsgevangenen [pow] 258
Vermist [missing] 500
Totaal ca. 240000
[Source: Numbers provided by the Rijks instituut voor Oorlogsdocumentatie (RIOD), March 1955]

Update this information and provide an explanation that not a single Holocaust denier has been able to provide. Ever. Anywhere.
What do you have to lose by explaining it to us*? Your credibility?

Erwinl (137 comments)
Bluespaceoddity (233)
So far a combined 370 - if we start from scratch. I bet we can find a lot more people who would like to hear and answer than you can find who can post a reply.
 
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Erwinl (137 comments)
Bluespaceoddity (233)
So far a combined 370 - if we start from scratch. I bet we can find a lot more people who would like to hear and answer than you can find who can post a reply.

I can add a few thousand posts. Why would that matter? Oh, that's a question Clayton needs to answer.
Yes, I would like to read Clayton's answers to your questions as well. But, knowing Clayton, I already know that he will never answer them. He can never answer any questions, for he knows that any honest answer would destroy his arguments. he can never back up his claims, for they are never true. Clayton is all about dodging, evading, and running away like a weasle.
 
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