China creates video game simulating combat against US troops

1) Representative democracy =/= direct democracy. In a representative democracy, the people delegate their power to a number of politicians. Going after polls on every decision is unworkable, especially in larger countries.

I agree, but what you are saying completes and it is not in contrast with what I said

2) This is one reason why many countries have have (by law) independent media, like BBC in UK, SVT, P1, P2, P3, P4 in Sweden, etc. Bias in these channels would be a tremendous scandal on its own.

Let alone for a second that I can bring you very quickly a number of examples where media channels have been accused of biasedness (say, example, why almost no US channel publicly denounced the lack of evidence that Saddam had significant quantities of WMD, say another, why "experts" and much more rarely foreign government representatives are interviewed in western media about questions about that very country)
, the main point is that "biasedness" is a relative concept.
what can be biased in your eyes, it may look as completely unbiased in the eyes of, say, an Islamic fundamentalist.

3) Yes, that is a flaw with representative democracies, but only when compared to Nirvana.

This sentence means nothing

4) Not every country is Italy. In Sweden, many candidates get known by being active in the party youth organizations.

? Who is speaking about Italy?
Mafia means that there are connections between business and politics and that people in politics respond to business istances instead of people and people get educated by the media

5) ... And? Hello, Nirvana?

?

6) Yes, this is another reason for having representative, rather than direct democracies.

And the representatives will not care much more about the will of the people than their Chinese counterparts do.
 
You think technical progress is what led to black Americans' emancipation?

What is your take?

Do they have freedom of expression?

Yes, in almost all cases unless you directly attack or get involved in activities that may be seen as anti-governative

Do they have free elections?

No, but does it really matter much?
How are US elections much more free when you have two parties passing the power between themselves?

Do they have freedom to manifest and political agency?

Limitedly they have.
Do you have complete freedom to manifest in Europe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgPWg25R_Xc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfR2cZHRACk

Do they have freedom of religion?

Yes, they have limited freedom of religion.
Unless the Central committee does not see religion as a threat to their power.
 
No, but does it really matter much?
How are US elections much more free when you have two parties passing the power between themselves?

Let me answer that. Yes, it makes a differance to the point of being a contrast. The differance between 2 choices and a billion choices is inifnitely smaller than the differances between 2 choices and no choice.

A question for you, though - what number of choices would you call sufficient? 3? 7? 18.2?

McHrozni
 
Split some pointless bickering to Abandon All Hope. Please, cut it out; stick to the subject matter of the thread; and keep things civil.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL
 
What is your take?



Yes, in almost all cases unless you directly attack or get involved in activities that may be seen as anti-governative



No, but does it really matter much?
How are US elections much more free when you have two parties passing the power between themselves?

Limitedly they have.

Yes, they have limited freedom of religion.
Unless the Central committee does not see religion as a threat to their power.

So they have freedoms only the party will allows them to have, in other words they do not have freedoms.

Thank you.
 
I agree, but what you are saying completes and it is not in contrast with what I said

I think you're missing the point. We like it this way and if we didn't we'd vote for people who want to instigate more direct democracy.

Let alone for a second that I can bring you very quickly a number of examples where media channels have been accused of biasedness (say, example, why almost no US channel publicly denounced the lack of evidence that Saddam had significant quantities of WMD, say another, why "experts" and much more rarely foreign government representatives are interviewed in western media about questions about that very country)
, the main point is that "biasedness" is a relative concept.
what can be biased in your eyes, it may look as completely unbiased in the eyes of, say, an Islamic fundamentalist.

The US has no publicly owned news channels (except some State Radios, I think?), so your point is moot.



This sentence means nothing

It was a reference to the Nirvana Fallacy, where you're comparing something (in this case, representative democracy) to a hypothetical, non-existent perfect alternative. This was about democracy vs. dictatorship, yes? Do you think a dictatorship handles this issue better than a democracy? Do you think any other system does? If not, your point is moot.



? Who is speaking about Italy?
Mafia means that there are connections between business and politics and that people in politics respond to business istances instead of people and people get educated by the media

Uh... a mafia is a vast criminal organization (e.g. Sicilian Mafia). Very few countries are ruled by the mafia. Of course business interests are considered in politics, they ought to be. Because sometimes, often even, the interests of business align with the interests of the public.



Nirvana fallacy in action again.



And the representatives will not care much more about the will of the people than their Chinese counterparts do.

Actually they must, because every 4 (or so) years they'll have to play nice and step down if the votes don't add up in their favour, unlike the Chinese government. That's not say a democracy can't end up being corrupt, but this is not the case with most western democracies.
 
A little late for my response but: Good for China. They likely want to create a realistic experience and that would involve using the most plausible military threat, the US. Sorta like how every US war movie in the 1980s involved the USSR. I think it would be fun to be able to play a game where you play against the US. While I am sure there might be games published in the US that let you, I don't know of any. Probably because there are too many people out there who can't get past the fact that it's just a game.
 
So they have freedoms only the party will allows them to have, in other words they do not have freedoms.

Thank you.

You are allowed to have the freedoms the President and the Congress allow you to have.
(Patriot Act anyone ?)

Let me answer that. Yes, it makes a differance to the point of being a contrast. The differance between 2 choices and a billion choices is inifnitely smaller than the differances between 2 choices and no choice.

Are you sure?
If hypothetically you could only vote for Hitler or Stalin, whom would you choose?

I think you're missing the point. We like it this way and if we didn't we'd vote for people who want to instigate more direct democracy.

Who likes it this way?
You?
Anybody else?
Then probably, according to your very point, most of the Chinese people too may also like it their way, or at leaast not dislike it so much

The US has no publicly owned news channels (except some State Radios, I think?), so your point is moot.

That is not the point.
Government follows the interests of corporate business who owns and controls news channels.

It was a reference to the Nirvana Fallacy, where you're comparing something (in this case, representative democracy) to a hypothetical, non-existent perfect alternative. This was about democracy vs. dictatorship, yes? Do you think a dictatorship handles this issue better than a democracy? Do you think any other system does? If not, your point is moot.

Let alone for a second that it is absolutely rational to think that people may be willing to be more interested in politics and join the political process in person instead of losing time watching Glenn Beck or Obama on TV..
My original point is not comparing US "democracy " to Nirvana or Samsara, but to point out that US "democracy" and China "non-democracy" are not so different after all

Uh... a mafia is a vast criminal organization (e.g. Sicilian Mafia). Very few countries are ruled by the mafia. Of course business interests are considered in politics, they ought to be. Because sometimes, often even, the interests of business align with the interests of the public.

Wrong.
Sicilian Mafia is one of the types of Mafia and it is called "Cosa Nostra".
Russia has been called a Mafia state.
Mafia in a larger meaning means collusion between interest to screw the ordinary people.

Nirvana fallacy in action again.

See above

Actually they must, because every 4 (or so) years they'll have to play nice and step down if the votes don't add up in their favour, unlike the Chinese government. That's not say a democracy can't end up being corrupt, but this is not the case with most western democracies.

It matters, but much less than you think.
About 50% of the people in the US do not vote.
How much of the remaining 50% who goes to vote knows about the record of voting of each candidate in the ballot is unknown, but likely not high.
But the main point is that if both Democrats and Republicans are in favour of keeping cocaine illegal, say, and you want to get cocaine use liberalized, you are out of the game whatever candidate get elected.
(unless Paul becomes president or you get elected, same probability)
Same as the Chinese, more or less.
 
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You are allowed to have the freedoms the President and the Congress allow you to have.

Nope. The courts decide, and the US President doesn't have much to say about it.

Are you sure?
If hypothetically you could only vote for Hitler or Stalin, whom would you choose?

I wouldn't vote and join an insurrection.

Where do you live?
 
Nope. The courts decide, and the US President doesn't have much to say about it.

The courts decide basing their decisions on the law, which is written by the Congress and the President, I assume.
Was/it the Patriot Act legal in the US?
Did this act somehow limit the freedom of US citizens?

I wouldn't vote and join an insurrection.

Which would be illegal in both China and the US.
Where is the difference?
 
The courts decide basing their decisions on the law, which is written by the Congress and the President, I assume.

You assume incorrectly.

The Patriot Act is just one law, and it is voted on democratically, and most of the laws are not run by one party, and are not defined by the one party or the president. Some bills pass and some don't.

Which would be illegal in both China and the US.
Where is the difference?

I was merely answering your stupid hypothetical.

What country are you from? Why are you so afraid to reveal your country of residence?
 
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What country are you from? Why are you so afraid to reveal your country of residence?
No idea if it's true, but internet lore has it that the Chinese government has people hired to promote the government of China in various countries over the internet.
 
Which is more corrupt? Belarus?

I asked myself the same question, and came to a similar answer. Another couple of possibilities lie in the Balkans: Croatia, Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo are all pretty corrupt as far as I know, but I have no idea how they compare to Italy. Croatia was described as a "mafia that has a state", so it's probably worse, but that's guessing.

McHrozni
 

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