So there was this female speaker on an elevator

[Dunstan]

Hmmm.. to me from the same side of the atlantic 'Don't take this the wrong way' is up there with 'I'm not a racist/sexist/homophobe/prude but...' as a weasel phrase which actually means the opposite of what it says.

It also means the guy was aware of what it looked like he was doing.

Yeah, it's "plausible deniability."

No, she was a keynote speaker.
She should have acted like one, rather than a bully.

Is Randi a bully when he criticizes Uri Geller in his speeches? Are PZ and Dawkins bullies when they take apart creationists in theirs? Where did this idea come from that you can't criticize someone else in a speech?

 

[gnome]

What impression?

The implication I read from your post and Darat's agreement was that the problem was something about the elevator guy other than his behavior.

I had the opposite impression is all.

Though any discussion on that is bound to be rather subjective.

 

[AvalonXQ]

You try 52 years of putting up with this. Then we can talk.

Not in disagreement. Seen it in my own family, in fact -- college or seed money being for sons, not daughters.

Just disappointed by it.

 

[PGH]

I don't think it was his physical existence in the elevator she was objecting to.

But much has been made of the fact that they were on an elevator. It's been given numerous times as a reason for her to be nervous that the man was even present to begin with. It keeps being repeated that because they were on an elevator which is an enclosed space where "anything can happen" she had every right to be nervous and creeped out.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

So what does keep women from wanting to attend these conferences?

Our local skeptics and atheists events seem to be equally attended by both genders. I have noticed we don't have many blacks, however. I wouldn't want to speculate why that is but I'm sure it's not about anyone making them uncomfortable.

I don't recall TAM being dominated by men, but my recollection isn't that clear. If it is a problem I seriously doubt fear of leering guys is high on the list of reasons women aren't there.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I've been working very hard lately, physically and mentally. I've brought decades of experience to bear, and have, frankly, worked minor miracles.

My brother-in-law, who is my employer, took note of my efforts recently. He did not praise either my physical strength or my intellect. Instead, he told me I'm "beautiful."

I'm 52. I'm overweight, toothless, and wrinkled. I have bags and dark circles under my eyes. My skin is scarred all over. I'm a wreck. I'm not beautiful. I'm not even attractive anymore.

But the one thing he thought I would like to hear was not that I'm a hard-worker, or that I have a decent intellect. He thought I'd like to be flattered.

I'm not equal to a man in this situation. Not even close.

Not all men are this stupid. But as long as there are some who are, I'll always be something "less than."

Why does saying you are beautiful have to mean your exterior shell? Couldn't he have meant your effort and your 'self' was beautiful?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Is anyone else reminded of that Seinfeld episode where George turns down a late-night offer of coffee from a beautiful woman because coffee keeps him up at night? Only later does he realize what he did:

Yep!

There's a Seinfeld episode that pretty much covers every situation. Which, when you think about it, is what made the show so brilliant.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

The implication I read from your post and Darat's agreement was that the problem was something about the elevator guy other than his behavior.

I had the opposite impression is all.

Though any discussion on that is bound to be rather subjective.

Oh. No, because I don't know anything about the elevator guy.

My point was, not that women necessarily object to being hit on, just by being hit on by the wrong guy. The creepers, of which there are a fair number at these events.

 

[NYCEMT86]

Wow, talk about a storm in a teacup.

I'm afraid that men are allowed to speak to ladies. Even in elevators.

I'm afraid that men are allowed to attempt to pick up ladies for casual sex. Even in elevators.

Women are afforded the same privilidges.


This whole thing is not even remorely gender based, just a clumsy, unwanted social interaction, they happen all the time. If there was this much fuss every time someone made an unwanted sexual advance we'd have to clear the internet of porn to make room. (Yes, I realise the irony in commenting myself)


Just because someone was offended by something someone said it doesn't mean that they have no right to say it. Of course, the offended party has every right to be offended, but it doesn't make the authour of the offensive comment a bad person.

Oh, and if someone has a particular problem with being alone with a stranger in elevators then perhaps they should use the stairs.

^^ This

 

[Starthinker]

Oh. No, because I don't know anything about the elevator guy.

My point was, not that women necessarily object to being hit on, just by being hit on by the wrong guy. The creepers, of which there are a fair number at these events.

Speaking for us creepers everywhere, I humbly apologize.

 

[latsot]

I do sympathize, but besides avoiding all interaction with women, how can we be certain to never to anything to frighten them?

Oh ***** YOU*. You *KNOW* the answer to your own question. Don't pretend you don't.

 

[Antiquehunter]

Oh ***** YOU*. You *KNOW* the answer to your own question. Don't pretend you don't.

Settle, petal...

It is entirely possible that Rusty is merely tweaking the nose of (overly sensitive) feminists everywhere...

 

[Seismosaurus]

Oh ***** YOU*. You *KNOW* the answer to your own question. Don't pretend you don't.

Seriously, some of us honestly do not. Some of us are sitting on the sidelines wondering what in the holy hell is going on.

 

[fls]

I often take the stairs at hotels (I'm a stairs kind of person in general). They tend to be pretty creepy, too. At least there, you have an advantage if you are fit.

Linda

 

[Starthinker]

Settle, petal...

It is entirely possible that Rusty is merely tweaking the nose of (overly sensitive) feminists everywhere...

I think New Blood was joking.

 

[Starthinker]

I often take the stairs at hotels (I'm a stairs kind of person in general). They tend to be pretty creepy, too. At least there, you have an advantage if you are fit.

Linda

Are you fit? Would you like to get some coffee and discuss it?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Speaking for us creepers everywhere, I humbly apologize.

See, creepers don't know they are creepers. So the fact that you think you are, means that you aren't. Make sense?

Plus, I've met you. Trust me, you're not included.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Are you fit? Would you like to get some coffee and discuss it?

By coffee, do you mean coffee or "coffee"?

 

[Starthinker]

By coffee, do you mean coffee or "coffee"?

If I'm making you uncomfortable, just run to the elevator, where it's safe.

 

[case#46cw39]

Right. Like I've said previously, one can talk about different circumstances where these distinctions are more obvious. However, since this wasn't a case of someone making persistent sexual advances, it's not clear why this represents hatred of women.

Linda

Hey baby wanna get a room, your sessy??