Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Both Casey Anthony and Amanda behaved strangely. Amanda did cartwheels. Casey Anthony didn't report her daughter missing for ages but went partying instead of being concerned. Both Casey Anthony and Amanda lied. Casey Anthony told the police she left her daughter with a nanny named Zanny who could never be found. Amanda agreed, under extreme duress, with some police suggestions about Patrick and imaginary screams.

I guess, if you're an idiot, that the lies and unusual behavior are equivalent.
 
Could geography or lack of 'hotness' doom the appeal

Both Casey Anthony and Amanda behaved strangely. Amanda did cartwheels. Casey Anthony didn't report her daughter missing for ages but went partying instead of being concerned. Both Casey Anthony and Amanda lied. Casey Anthony told the police she left her daughter with a nanny named Zanny who could never be found. Amanda agreed, under extreme duress, with some police suggestions about Patrick and imaginary screams.

I guess, if you're an idiot, that the lies and unusual behavior are equivalent.


Well, I may be an idiot [seems to be a lot of those around on the rest of the internet recently] but it seems the mistake Amanda made was that she didn't kill* MK in Florida.

Or maybe ........ just maybe she is not as hot as Casey :eek: :boxedin: - yea I know that's heresy but I like to style myself as an iconoclast.

* Note - I have no opinion on this other case that has suddenly broken into the thread.
 
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Unfortunately I was told Thanks for stopping by the last time I was there and it was made clear I was not welcome. I did start with my first post at Michael's PMF but (other than Michael) did not get a response. I felt it would be better to continue here. I don't believe the Machine posts on Michael's PMF in any case (since the split).

Here's another way The Machine is deceptive:

The Machine said:
False Claim 3: Sollecito finally stated that Knox could have left his apartment for several hours on the night of Kercher’s murder while he was asleep

Nathaniel Rich’s claim that Sollecito said that Knox “could” have left his apartment for several hours while he was sleeping is simply not true. You can read Sollecito’s various alibis here. Sollecito categorically stated in his witness statement that Knox DID leave his apartment, while he was wide awake. He said she went to Le Chic at 9:00pm and she came back at about 1.00am.

Disproved by his own citations! Raffaele did not say Amanda left his apartment, he's talking about them being in town and splitting up at about 9 PM, which we all know didn't happen, Raffaele must be thinking of a different night/event.

"Amanda and I went into town at around 6pm, but I don't remember what we did. We stayed there until around 8.30 or 9pm.

"At 9pm I went home alone and Amanda said that she was going to Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends. We said goodbye. I went home, I rolled myself a spliff and made some dinner."
 
The Machine's claim No. 4

"Even Amanda Knox’s lawyer, Luciano Ghirga, confirmed that Amanda Knox had not been hit: 'There were pressures from the police, but we never said she was hit.' He never ever lodged an official complaint." Mr. Ghirga's statement is not that Amanda was not hit; it was a denial that the defense said it. It should be obvious why he would make that denial. One of the lawyers* also declined to name the police as the people responsible for overwriting the meta-data with respect to the last time that Stardust was accessed, even though they were in Sollecito's apartment at the time. Gosh I feel almost as if I am doing Statement Analysis.

Justinian2,

I agree with you that the analogy between Anthony's lies and Knox's lies (or false statements) is a strained one.

*Luca Maori, as reported by Andrea Vogt
 
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halides1,

I certainly don't want this thread to veer off topic, but my understanding gleaned from a few minutes of media exposure is that there was evidence from Facebook postings that provided an alternative innocent explanation for the chloroform searches.

Also agree on the thread veering off topic, but while the news is still fresh, I thought I'd throw in my two cents ...

Based on my own research on this case, and yes the wikipedia page, the forensics team found google searches for chloroform, and "how to make chloroform". As an organic chemist, I'm a little skeptical about anyone making chloroform in their kitchen, but it is found industrially and not too difficult to obtain. That chloroform was found in Casey's trunk (and in Caylee's body), means it came from somewhere. The defense's claim that chloroform is present in bleach, I don't think has any basis in reality, particularly in significant quantities. (The defense claims Caylee died in a swimming pool accident, covered up by Casey's father).

The innocent explanation for the google searches was that one of the family dogs was sick, and that Casey's mom was really searching for information on chlorophyll, as she believed that would be why the dog is sick. That claim was never supported by the forensics computer searching. It's interesting that even a week ago, Casey's parents stated they believed Casey was "not innocent", but they would "do all they can to avoid her getting the death penalty".

Casey's June 21 diary entry was particularly damning in my opinion:

"I have no regrets, just a bit worried. I just want for everything to work out OK. I completely trust my own judgment and know that I made the right decision. I just hope that the end justifies the means. I just want to know what the future will hold for me. I guess I will soon see – This is the happiest that I have been in a very long time. I hope that my happiness will continue to grow– I've made new friends that I really like. I've surrounded myself with good people – I am finally happy. Let's just hope that it doesn't change"

The year was omitted, and defense claimed it was written in 2003 (before Caylee was born). But an FBI analyst determined that the style of diary wasn't even created until 2004, by a specific printing company (Penman Paper). Not sure how heavily the diary was considered in the trial.

I'm kind leaning towards being a "guilter" when it comes to Casey Anthony, but maybe I'm not seeing the bigger picture, or the reasonable doubt if there was some, somewhere ... I'll shut up about this case now!

= sd =
 
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Also agree on the thread veering off topic, but while the news is still fresh, I thought I'd throw in my two cents ...

That chloroform was found in Casey's trunk (and in Caylee's body), means it came from somewhere.

I hadn't known that. Obviously that would increase the probability of guilt.

The innocent explanation for the google searches was that one of the family dogs was sick,

The one I heard was that there was a boyfriend who had posted something about "How To Win Her With Chloroform" or something of that nature.
 
I hadn't known that. Obviously that would increase the probability of guilt.

Re. chloroform in caylee's body: After double checking my source, I think I need to retract that statement. Indeed, with the extent of post-mortem decay, all that was left was Caylee's hair and skeleton -- no "body" to speak of. Chloroform being fairly volatile, it was not likely to be present at that point. Interestingly, bodies do produce a certain amount of chloroform upon death. Casey's car had 10,000 that amount of chloroform according to one forensics analysis, and I think that was one of the prosecution's key points.

=sd=
 
I got banned from PMF for some relatively innocuous comments. Now I can't even access their site so it would be nice if posters with access can update the shenanigans in their quest for justice.

One thing I posted was in correcting one of the posters on his erroneous impression that AK's middle was evasive when if I am not mistaken it is Marie.

Which I think is Casey Anthony's middle name as well, so guilters need to update their false equivalency list.
 
Wait, who's this anthony fellow and why is he in this thread?

He was a congressman from NY who sent photos of his last name to females. According to PMF he sent a couple of photos to Amanda Knox. Apparently, he was giving her damage control advice on how to handle RG's testimony and her Bella Vita tattoo.
 
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I got banned from PMF for some relatively innocuous comments. Now I can't even access their site so it would be nice if posters with access can update the shenanigans in their quest for justice.

One thing I posted was in correcting one of the posters on his erroneous impression that AK's middle was evasive when if I am not mistaken it is Marie.

Which I think is Casey Anthony's middle name as well, so guilters need to update their false equivalency list.

Who banned you, mdana? As far as I know, being banned doesn't prevent anyone from viewing the site.
 
Who banned you, mdana? As far as I know, being banned doesn't prevent anyone from viewing the site.

It actually does -- at least it did for me back in December -- but there are ways around.

Incidentally, for some reason I no longer need to resort to such back doors, and can access normally. I wonder if it has to do with the split...
 
Who banned you, mdana? As far as I know, being banned doesn't prevent anyone from viewing the site.

You have been permanently banned from this board.

Please contact the Board Administrator for more information.

A ban has been issued on your IP address.

This is the only thing I get if I try to access the site or contact an administrator through e-mail. No great loss, but I would have expected an excoriating e-mail or some type of reasoning.
 
This is the only thing I get if I try to access the site or contact an administrator through e-mail. No great loss, but I would have expected an excoriating e-mail or some type of reasoning.

I should hope so. Wow, they sure didn't give you much of a chance. Rest assured you are in good company with dozens of other people.
 
A Canadian idiot goes further, and tries to make the ludicrous claim that the jurors all thought Anthony was guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt, but acquitted as some sort of demonstration against capital punishment. He then goes on to boldly state that Anthony is as guilty as hell, and that she's "got away with murder". What a damn idiot

Considering it was a death-qualified jury, this whole line of thinking is utterly preposterous. It would, in fact, require a singularly unlikely kind of conspiracy if true, i.e. randomly chosen potential jurors somehow conspiring in voir dire to lie about their position on capital punishment just so they can make an ineffectual "demonstration" against it (which they've told no one about) by acquitting a clearly guilty (per the scenario) person. And all of this when, as you rightly pointed out, the judge doesn't even have to impose the death penalty for a murder 1 conviction, and won't if the jurors don't recommend it. Makes absolutely no sense.

Incidentally, Anthony's defense filed a motion for mistrial recently on the very issue of death-qualified juries. It was denied by the judge. Lucky for them, as it turns out.
 
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At any rate, since you ask:

Now I can't even access their site so it would be nice if posters with access can update the shenanigans in their quest for justice.

Here are a couple of highlights:

- Ganong has all but endorsed a mafia conspiracy theory to explain the current direction of the case.

- Quennell has, exceptionally, made a statement that I agree with, in praising Alan Dershowitz's comments on the Piers Morgan show -- only to immediately reveal his completely warped and distorted perception of said comments. Quennell thinks Dershowitz was criticizing the philosophy behind the American legal system when he said that verdicts weren't supposed to be about "truth and justice", when in fact he was doing just the opposite. Dershowitz pointed out that the legal system is a complex compromise between competing values, and that the high standard for conviction derives from the principle that "it is better for ten guilty persons to go free than for one innocent person to be unjustly confined" -- of which occasional acquittals of the guilty are an inevitable result. (Evidently Quennell doesn't endorse this principle, but as far as I know Dershowitz does.)

Also, while browsing the archives for information about the split, I came across this cretinous tidbit from "Michael" regarding the Wikipedia controversy (emphasis added):

What Dempsey doesn't seem to realise, is that a court and its judgement has weight and the findings of a trial have seniority over defence complaints or media articles. So for example, the court found that the footprints were in blood. It doesn't matter that the defence or the support groups object to this or that they are being raised in appeal, those are the facts established in a court of law. Unless or until those facts are overturned in the appeal, which they have not been, they remain the facts. It is Wiki's job to relay the established facts and that's what they've been doing. For them to do otherwise is no longer factual coverage but propaganda. It's not Wiki's job to push propaganda or satisfy the agendas of lobby groups. If one wishes to challenge the facts, the correct and proper place to do so is in the courts, not via Wikipedia.

Here we have explicitly articulated statement of the guilter idea that court decisions have such an exalted level of authority in society than any criticism of them is ipso facto marginal. This is ridiculous on its face: some court decisions are extremely controversial, and there can be no legitimate excuse for suppressing mention of such controversy from encyclopedia articles on such cases. Not only is it ridiculous (and dangerously authoritarian), it is also disingenuous, because there is absolutely no way that these people would apply this "principle" to every single court decision, in every place, at every time in history. Some court rulings are simply absurd, and widely recognized as such. Yet they are for some reason very eager to suppress mention of disputes and criticisms related to the Kercher case, which I daresay is behavior that is emblematic of a "lobby group" with an "agenda".

If one is willing to give total, unquestioning deference to the courts, why not other branches of government? The Indiana state legislature once infamously considered adopting a bill declaring that pi is equal to 3. If that bill had passed, would Wikipedia be obliged to agree that, while pi may be irrational in most of the world, it is an integer in Indiana? I've heard rumors from time to time that certain government agencies have decreed that tomatoes are not fruits; if this is so, should Wikipedia's biological entries be amended to stay in conformity with the "established facts"?

Nonsense, drivel, poppycock, idiotic humbug of the first order.
 
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