Moonbat alert: Chomksy condemns Bin Laden kill.

HoverBoarder said:
I hope (but do not expect) that you will take the time to actually read this, and understand what your tactic is actually doing, and the implications of it.

The US has at many times been one of the only Countries standing up for human rights in far off Countries, and there is little indication that China, Brazil, India, Russia, or any of the other major powers in the world will do the same when we stop.

We admittedly have done little to protect the abuse and execution of gays throughout the world, but we have done much to protect women and ethnically oppressed people worldwide.

If we want to do better, we need people like Chomsky and you to actually help promote human rights, instead of apologize for those who are the largest abusers of it.



I understand you avoiding this, because it gets to the heart of the problem with the tactic that you and Chomsky subscribe to. It is a way to frame the world in a way that makes you, and others that subscribe to it, feel better about yourselves.

I define this practice as a "blame based understanding system." In short, complex problems have thousands and even millions of factors that are extremely difficult to understand. However, by placing the blame on one Country or institution, you can have a quick and dirty understanding of a situation that in reality is far more complex.

The problem is that to do this, you give up honesty, truth, and you end up fighting against those who are really trying to understand and fix the problems. Chomsky is a master reinvisionist, but instead of using his intellect to help solve our problems, he uses it to phrase situations in ways that causes you and other to feel happy about blaming the "bad side" while the reality is nothing close to the narrative he has created.

In short, Chomsky creates a blame based understand system that provides him with lots of money selling books, while people like you eat it up without giving it a second thought. All at the sacrifice of developing actual solutions to our problems.

There are people on all sides that do this for many different reasons. Such as when people combine all Muslims as "bad" or "evil." As an example of blame based understanding, I used to blame far more than was justified on Bush (the economy, our War on Terror, etc.). I viewed these complex situation largely based on the actions and speeches of one man. It was not until I heard people doing the same thing to Obama that I realized how wrong I had been.

The truth is that this is just one of our set of very complex problems that includes a number of issues that we have never been able to really understand or grasp. One aspect of this occurs is because of religion, politics, economics, and a whole list of other social structures that we developed from evolutionary adaptations in order to organize and sustain ourselves, but which were developed in a way that made it impossible for any person or group of people to fully understand. We needed to have a basis for understanding and rationalizing the world around us in order to allow us to be more effective in collective economics and warfare, but it is impossible for a human brain to understand all of the factors that go into the function of the world, and even the reasons for why and how you make decisions (which is a combination of nature/nurture, environmental effects, and the evolution of your own emotions and the world around you). This therefore require structures the simplified and organized the world in a way that we could understand, even if they were not entirely accurate.

Everyone has some form of a blame based understanding system, and the more that you understand and recognize it, the more rational you become about it.

One of the major reasons why the War on Terror has gone on for so long is because we all have a different definition of what terrorism is. The goal of Al-Qaeda, to establish a caliphate is false choice, but people just get caught up on both sides, and don't talk about the reality of it. The more that we can have honest conversations in world forums like the UN about how to protect Human Rights while protecting religions freedom, including those abuses under Sharia Law (which is barred from discussion at the UN), than the closer we will get to a real and long lasting solution to this.
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JihadJane said:
I don't see my "behavior" in the same way that you do. I see no behavior that needs "answering".


It doesn't glorify anything. it's just a screenname.



Firstly I'd refer you to your own comment about complex problems and also remind you that, historically, it wasn't that long ago that Europe was terrorizing and burning women and other resisters to the emerging capitalist order, in huge numbers. Europe grew out such atrocities, mostly. It is possible the Muslim world will reject such atrocities too, assuming, of course, the entire world doesn't revert to tribal gangsterism in the future. The Arab Spring revolutions have shown that Islamic Fundamentalism is already being sidelined as a force for revolutionary change and liberation.

It is important to assert that women, gays and many other oppressed groups everywhere deserve equal human rights and to never give up asserting it.

The role of women in the "Arab Spring" shows that cultural change is already happening. An organized working class has also been central to enabling political resistance in those countries.



The United States of America, with just under 5% of the world's population, consumes about a quarter of the world’s fossil fuel resources. The US military budget is almost as much as the rest of the world combined (43%). The US dollar is the de facto global reserve currency. Its ruling ideology and financial system, erroneously labeled Free Market Capitalism, dominate the planet. The planet is garrisoned by hundreds of its military outposts.

With great power comes great responsibility. You can also expect some blame!
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So we didn't get very far last time with this, but maybe I will try again.



The long story short of this is that I do not think the US or the West is in any means perfect, but they should be blamed for the things that are actually their fault, and people like Chomsky blame them for anything and everything in the world despite the cause, reason, or logic.

This whitewashes the bad things that we should be focusing our criticism on, and ignores the good things that we should be praising.
 
Pat for example makes some very good and valid points in his video, but when he says things like "Islam stands for terrorism," it is far too general. There are specific States, clerics, and practices which encourage and turn a blind eye towards terrorism, and it is a serious question that is being ignored and shouldn't be. But just equating Islam itself to terrorism is not only wrong, it also demonizes the moderate groups and people who are working to not make it that way.

There are plenty of people who are able to practice their faith without supporting those who kill or oppress people in the name of their religion.
 
HoverBoarder said:
people like Chomsky blame them for anything and everything in the world despite the cause, reason, or logic.
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Again, Chomsky does not blame the US for anything and everything. He selectively writes about events where there is a case for US responsibility. It didn't take any great effort to find US responsibility in Indochina, or in Latin America, or in Iraq.
 
Gazpacho said:
Again, Chomsky does not blame the US for anything and everything. He selectively writes about events where there is a case for US responsibility. It didn't take any great effort to find US responsibility in Indochina, or in Latin America, or in Iraq.
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Chomsky is selectively honest when it fits his purposes, but his blanket blame of anything and everything on the West is about as worthless as it comes when it comes to real honest debate about the issues.
 
HoverBoarder said:
The long story short of this is that I do not think the US or the West is in any means perfect, but they should be blamed for the things that are actually their fault, and people like Chomsky blame them for anything and everything in the world despite the cause, reason, or logic.

This whitewashes the bad things that we should be focusing our criticism on, and ignores the good things that we should be praising.
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Maybe you should point out one thing Chomsky accused the West for and that proved incorrect.
And please do not try to be too picky, I guess everyone may make some mistake in 60 years of professioanl life, even Chomsky
 
HoverBoarder said:
Pat for example makes some very good and valid points in his video, but when he says things like "Islam stands for terrorism," it is far too general. There are specific States, clerics, and practices which encourage and turn a blind eye towards terrorism, and it is a serious question that is being ignored and shouldn't be. But just equating Islam itself to terrorism is not only wrong, it also demonizes the moderate groups and people who are working to not make it that way.

There are plenty of people who are able to practice their faith without supporting those who kill or oppress people in the name of their religion.
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what is ignored?
 
Shrek said:
Maybe you should point out one thing Chomsky accused the West for and that proved incorrect.
And please do not try to be too picky, I guess everyone may make some mistake in 60 years of professioanl life, even Chomsky
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Genocide in Afghanistan.
 
Shrek said:
Maybe you should point out one thing Chomsky accused the West for and that proved incorrect.
And please do not try to be too picky, I guess everyone may make some mistake in 60 years of professioanl life, even Chomsky
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Look up "Chomsky Lies," and take your pick.

Here's one with a list of the top 200 Chomsky lies.


It would be one thing to make honest mistakes. It is quite another to be habitually dishonest to sell books on a blame based understanding system sold to people who would rather blame all of the world's problems on the West instead of doing the hard and difficult task of actually addressing them.
 
DC said:
what is ignored?
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Take your pick, it is just about everything and anything that is bad about Islam that is ignored by a large number of terribly misguided people who think that it is "PC" to not talk about it.

You could start with the points that Pat mad in his video.

HoverBoarder said:
I encourage you to actually watch the video and address the points.

- His points on the turning a blind eye at the UN to serious HR abuses is correct.
- His points in highlighting Human rights abuses in many Islamic Countries was correct.
- His point of sexual repression in the Islamic world is correct.
- His point about the suppression of free speech and free thought across the Muslim world was correct.
- His points on accepted abuses of women that is supported and perpetuated by many clerics is correct.

Do you agree that any of these things are problems, and if so what should be done about them.

As for what I think should be done about them, I think a good start would be to stop viewing them as acceptable behavior.
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I also talk about it in this post here.
 
HoverBoarder said:
Take your pick, it is just about everything and anything that is bad about Islam that is ignored by a large number of terribly misguided people who think that it is "PC" to not talk about it.

You could start with the points that Pat mad in his video.



I also talk about it in this post here.
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maybe you want to open the Amnesty International website? or other human rights groups? they talk about it pretty often.

or read newspapers? often those topics are geting spoken about.
or open fora like this one. or even youtube and watch some Klavan videos.
here we also have debates on those topics on TV.

i dont think those points are being ignored at all. :boggled:
 
DC said:
maybe you want to open the Amnesty International website? or other human rights groups? they talk about it pretty often.

or read newspapers? often those topics are geting spoken about.
or open fora like this one. or even youtube and watch some Klavan videos.
here we also have debates on those topics on TV.

i dont think those points are being ignored at all. :boggled:
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Amnesty International is a pretty honest group, and there are other ones as well, but it does not mean that there are not groups that are opposed discussion or debate of the abuses, violence, and oppression that occurs in Islamic societies.


Still, the point of this thread at least is Chomsky, and his pattern of dishonesty concerning Bin Laden and other of the hundreds of dishonest statements from the shady character of Chomsky.
 
HoverBoarder said:
Chomsky is selectively honest when it fits his purposes, but his blanket blame of anything and everything on the West
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Did you happen to read the post you were replying to?

HoverBoarder said:
Look up "Chomsky Lies," and take your pick.

Here's one with a list of the top 200 Chomsky lies.
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We've been over that one already. The recurring theme is "I never heard about that, or I don't like the way the historical facts were presented, therefore Chomsky is a liar."
 
Virus said:
Chomksy is a known supporter of the Iranian-backed Shiite terrorist group; Hezbollah.
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You can't understand what Chomsky is about from a few quotes, sound bytes or clips. I've spent hours watching his videos and reading his stuff and his aims are consistently for the welfare of people in general, the cause of peace, and an understanding of justice as reflected in the concept of moral equivalency and the underdog. Leave the old guy alone.
j.r.
 
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ufology said:
You can't understand what Chomsky is about from a few quotes, sound bytes or clips. I've spent hours watching his videos and reading his stuff and his aims are consistently for the welfare of people in general, the cause of peace, and an understanding of justice as reflected in the concept of moral equivalency and the underdog. Leave the old guy alone.
j.r.
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So why does he support a terrorist organization that just got indicted for killing the Prime Minister?
 
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