Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[DeathDart]

As far as the maneuvers go, we have to take those government forked tongue devils at their word as to who was aboard those planes.

Securacom controlled security at WTC and at all the final departure airports. NO VIDEO of who boarded those planes has been released. The one showing 2 or 3 of the hijackers was at an airport in Maine. They took a flight to Boston, then hijacked that plane.

Securacom must have saved money by using fake cameras at those Airports.

I guess we won't really know who to credit those flying skills at the Pentagon to.

 

[jaydeehess]

That didn't seem to be a TS or higher document. You are aware there are such things as military secrets?

Sounds like you are appealing to magic substances again Clayton.

If you cannot illustrate that a substance exists that will have the properties you wish it to have then you are simply making it up as you go along.

That is called fiction and is quite separate from what we refer to as reality.

 

[DeathDart]

Can you say Shin Bet?

Securacom Kuwaiti owned, W's Brother was an executive, a large number of Shin Bet (Israeli) employees.

Star Wars
Two passengers, and two droids, and no questions.

Just like Star Wars the FBI no questions for Securacom. Duh Are those fake security cameras, where are the recordings?

They are sued later and rather than have too many questions asked they pay up. Really without FBI agent powers and subpoena, powers a real investigation would have had, they didn't need to sweat it.

 

[jaydeehess]

I have to give you that one. Initiative in a combat environment can mean survival, acting without orders in a peace time environment is a request to be a civilian.

Just a nitpick here but its very possible that acting without orders could get you a new home in Levenworth rather than simply being a civilian.

Without a SOP there would not be a preset group of actions to follow, it would have to be made up on the fly. That drives another nail into the initiative corpse.

What 'preset orders' would you have for such an intercept?

One reason why various airfields do not immediatly scramble for senarios like this or others is that one result you very much do NOT want is to have resources from all those airfields committing to this one incident. It crowds the sky and makes intel from the military ATC more prone to confusion, and of course, another situation could develop elsewhere and all your resources are a hundred miles away.

You may note that the Soviets did not have dozens of aircraft on scene when KAL 007 went off course, only those scrambled were there. They pilot also had to get permission to fire AFTER having followed the 747 for quite a while.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

Oh my, here we go again.

Securacom "Controlled" security? They installed security equipment (or, in the case of the WTC had an uncompleted contract to install security equipment that they were fired from before completion and that was well before 9/11). They wouldn't have done day to day operation of the equipment even if they were still there. That was the NJ/NYPA's job.

Bush's brothers job there was financial in nature and I haven't seen any evidence that he ever even visited the WTC in any official capacity much less the fact that he was gone from that company in any capacity for more than a year before 9/11.

Seriously, are you back in 2006 and posting into the future? Did the pineapple mind meld give you time traveling powers over the internet?

 

[DeathDart]

The FBI was a doormat for the Israeli's.

When will you admit it?
The FBI was a doormat for the Israeli's. The Counterintelligence department should have been called the Anti-Intelligence department.

The press was pushed in line by using a moron like Szady to go after the Israeli's. Then having 60 Minutes sing “We Are the Worlds Biggest Dumb A**es for Messin With the Israelis“ from the highest mountain.

In reference to the Hanssen investigation. Most of those polygraphed would have been in Counterintelligence. After screwing up this bad, W promotes Szady to head of counterintelligence. It gets better!

However, Toni Locy of USA Today had a piece of information we didn’t see in other stories?no one at the FBI has been fired, even though 30 FBI employees were “red-flagged” after they flunked polygraphs in the wake of the scandal.

Were the ones who failed the polygraphs working with the Israelis? Ok, then they passed.

http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/no-one-fired-in-fbi-scandal/

The FBI is.... I put words to the degree of disgust I feel for the FBI.

 

[DeathDart]

Whats so bad about Leavenworth?

 

[DeathDart]

That's Leavenworth Washington right?

 

[DGM]

Whats so bad about Leavenworth?

You know, I think you are the best the "truth" movement has to offer. I think your post should be quoted for all the world to see. Great job!

 

[DeathDart]

GRRRRrrrr You could give me an audible warning, before you use the shock collar!

 

[DeathDart]

How about a simpler more human question?

Why are Corporations people now?

The original Tea Party was about the East India's Trading Company Tea!
The East India's Trading Company was a crown corporation.

And yes it is relevant. If 9-11 never happened would W still have been president to put the Koch's very own John Roberts in as Chief Justice?

 

[DeathDart]

The Gift of Speech Upon the Corporate Man
Chief Justice John Roberts with HIS Chorus brought the lightning down and imbued the mute and quietly toiling corporate man with the constitutional gift of free speech. Many a Corporate Man has fallen during the pursuit of this dream, now to rise again in Elysium. “The Corporate Man’s blood has been spilled for America’s Freedom” (TM) It has sponsored an untold number of those in Arlington. The Corporate Man swears no allegiance, since he will never abandon us, upon his honor. His honor is so great, that common law will not restrain his generosity. A small boon he asks, just a simple Hancock signed doormat.

 

[DGM]

How about a simpler more human question?

Why are Corporations people now?

The original Tea Party was about the East India's Trading Company Tea!
The East India's Trading Company was a crown corporation.

And yes it is relevant. If 9-11 never happened would W still have been president to put the Koch's very own John Roberts in as Chief Justice?

More important. Would there have been a "dumb-ass 2" or "hangover 2"? These are important questions an "independent investigation: needs to ask.

 

[DeathDart]

The Israelis get: us to attack Iraq, to shut up about the West Bank, and more money and arms. They also make a lot on the side selling our secrets.

The NeoCons get to attack Iraq and militarize American politics. They also trash out the intelligence agencies and need to rely on the Israelis. The Israelis suggest how to wire tap ALL Americans and supply the technology.

Wiretapped information allows them to win a second term. Can't prove it but it is a logical conclusion when dealing with Monsters.
The Koch's get all kinds of political support to undermine unions and workers.
Corporate Personhood has made the corporations nearly invulnerable.

Unlimited political donations will complete the job.

The Kochs & NeoCons will be the ones, who will come for you.

They are coming for the people in Minnesota and Wisconsin now, are you going to wait for your turn?

And Me?

I thought the reason that I have been able to do this was because I was logical and smarter.

Yeah, everyone can see the problem with that answer.

Sometimes a story has a happy ending, with the hero pulling the sword out of the stone.

A Disney ending.

The Israelis, the NeoCons, the Kochs, they were all Monsters.

I couldn't see what was obvious to everyone else.

I have come from a long line of monsters,

and I was the stronger Monster.

Looks like a Brothers Grimm ending.

I promised not to kill anyone,
but the Tree of Liberty is looking thirsty and weak,
and the Tyrants look quite gorged.

Time will tell, if I can keep my promise.

Its OK to laugh now.
there are more than enough Tyrants

 

[Travis]

Okay. I'm calling it right now. DeathDart is Poe. This is just a very elaborate act.

 

[TSR]

.
Seriously, has this member produced anything recently that even sparked an interesting point for discussion on anyone elses' part?

Troll. Feed. Don't.
.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Okay. I'm calling it right now. DeathDart is Poe. This is just a very elaborate act.

This. Travis is right on.
Plonk.
Done.

 

[Bell]

This post was in the "Welcome new Members! Introduce yourselves here!" thread:

Greetings friend! Do you wish to look as happy as me? Well, you've got the power inside you right now, so use it! Send $1 to Happy Dude, 742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield. Don't delay; eternal happiness is just a dollar away!

[Record scratch]

Sorry, that's part of another project I'm working on.

The name is Chris and how I found this site took a lot of hours so I'll do my best to abridge it (previewing this post: I fail).

I'm a huge pro wrestling fan, 16 of 24 years, and frequent many blogs/websites about it. One post somehow involved half a line about 9/11 Truthers being incredibly cynical. A replier stated 9/11 was an inside job. I quickly grew enraged and replied, since the topic is incredibly sensitive to me as had my stepfather gone to work on time that morning he would have been at Merill Lynch, and I would have elected to hang out there rather than go to school (it was the second day of 9th grade for me).

Dude told me I needed to do my homework. I lived in Jersey City and could walk to transportation capable of taking me to Manhattan easily (less than a mile). I offered to take it off the boards, giving him my e-mail. No response yet. This was two weeks ago.

After 9/11 happened, I watched almost a week of non-stop coverage as almost every channel was covering it from my recollection. Long story short, it was incredibly poignant to even look at an image of either tower being struck from 2002-two weeks ago.

After moving back to North Carolina in 2004, my PTSD intensified. I had nightmares, and couldn't look at a clock when it was 9:11.

Back to the replier, he had nothing for me to consider and somehow annexed Hitler into the conversation. I could have let it go, but something compelled me to investigate, to finally conquer this fear I had of staring at those images and watching videos. After an hour of mental preparation, I spent 9 hours straight (I had the next day off from work so it was fine) watching Loose Change I and II, and also reading two different word by word breakdowns of the movies that ripped them up. I'm almost certain one of them was from Mark Roberts.

After that, I had enough to safely say I could hold my own should someone bring any part of 9/11 up.

However, since I recently got into a car accident and don't have a working vehicle for another week, I went on another all night binge starting late Sunday night and concluding an hour or so ago (with breaks obviously). Plus, it was raining like crazy and I can hear all the fireworks I want to since I live so close to the Fairgrounds.

I came to this site, sifted through maybe 250-275 pages of material (100 of which, I believe, came from Mr. Roberts where he quoted the filmmakers in public interviews), and viewed other conspiracy films that essentially regurgitated Loose Change's beliefs.

I was almost tempted to challenge a 9/11 YouTube inconsistency video from NuffRespect, but figured something far more constructive could be done with my time (as I've found through this site, arguing with conspiracy theorists wouldn't benefit me much). Plus, I figured I could get sleep if I opted to introduce myself here rather than get involved with dissecting those videos, as it could easily become 10 AM EST before I realized that I had been staring at the stuff for such a long period. Granted it takes medicine to make me sleepy, I could use some snooze having been up 39 hours.

I wanted to come here primarily to thank the folks in the 9/11 conspiracy section for their extensive work. It's impossible to read 300 pages of threads, but evidence collected has convinced me that most conversations would go much the same: evidence presented by you guys, no legitimate rebuttal from him/her, back and forth, insults, an exit stage left from him/her.

I'd love to join those who will attend the 10th anniversary, since I read a few pages of those who attended the 5th, but if I came across a CT, I'd likely get arrested for assault. I can't remain that composed just yet.

I still look at the day with a great amount of tragedy, as any sensible person would, but at least I can say this site has gone above and beyond giving me reassurance and knowledge that I can go about my life with one of my only fears thoroughly conquered and put to bed (which is where I need to be right about now).

So again, a big, big thank you. I'm sure in the future I'll come back as this is a very interesting and incredibly diverse community, but the purpose of this message was to give my story, save myself another sleepless night, and applaud those who work tirelessly to head smack all the 9/11 conspiracies.

-Chris

 

[DeathDart]

Humans will send millions to kill, or be killed, over abstractions.

Sometimes they kill to support an abstraction, sometimes they kill to oppose another abstraction.

It rarely makes sense.

The abstraction for some of the Jews is Zionism. The state of Israel, no matter how far it deviates from Jewish values of justice.

The abstraction for the NeoCons, is opposing Socialism and amplifying Nationalism.

The OctoKochs are just the Aristocracy making a comeback. Government by the powerful, for the powerful.

All of these people will kill for their abstractions.

I am a monster like they are. When you believe, no matter how irrationally, that you are killing to make the world a better place, you can push all the reservations and doubts to the back of your mind, and ignore them.

So when you think it is impossible for so many murderous people to exist, you are the one who is looking at reality through Rose colored glasses.

If a pattern is chaotic and random their usually is not any intent behind the causation.

If a pattern of events is not random and the events nearly always produces an advantage for one group over another, then intent is obvious.


On 9-11 none of the planes had been intercepted by fighters. The amount of time between the aircraft deviating from their course until impact exceeded the normal time for fighter interception.

The Pentagon has short range defense missile batteries, that never engaged or fired.

The amount of evidence destroyed makes no sense. If it was for search and rescue the steel could have been moved away from the site. Destroying the steel as fast as you can and not retaining enough for a meaningful sample of material strongly suggests that the evidence was intentionally destroyed.

And NO I do not need to come up with after the fact (what was the crime?). They have to be made to answer why they destroyed the evidence.

Nancy Pelosi did not want an impeachment investigation of Bush because of where it might lead.

Nancy Pelosi was on the intelligence Committee that was part of the intelligence oversight that didn't do their job before 9-11. Or maybe they did their job according to plan.

Occasional incompetence can be incompetence, systemic incompetence is a modus operandi.

You like to argue about 99 day fires, fire hoses, but not about motive, why is that? Does understanding motive exceed your mental capacity? Are you writing a board game of irrelevant information, or are you reading from a script?

You will not examine motive, because you say with unexamined certainty, that the motives are already known! Unexamined certainty is an oxymoron, if you didn't notice.

You have memorized the new dogma of the great and powerful W, and you spout it forth like it actually was logic.

 

[Dave Rogers]

On 9-11 none of the planes had been intercepted by fighters. The amount of time between the aircraft deviating from their course until impact exceeded the normal time for fighter interception.

No, it didn't. That's a lie. The only interception over land in the US prior to 9/11 was the Payne Stewart interception, which took over an hour.

The Pentagon has short range defense missile batteries, that never engaged or fired.

No, it doesn't. That's a lie.

The amount of evidence destroyed makes no sense. If it was for search and rescue the steel could have been moved away from the site.

That's exactly what was done. The steel was moved to Fresh Kills landfill site, which was designated as a crime scene, and then fingertip searched at that location.

Destroying the steel as fast as you can and not retaining enough for a meaningful sample of material strongly suggests that the evidence was intentionally destroyed.

That never happened. It's a lie.

And NO I do not need to come up with after the fact (what was the crime?). They have to be made to answer why they destroyed the evidence.

They don't have to answer to any question that's based entirely on lies.

You like to argue about 99 day fires, fire hoses, but not about motive, why is that?

Because ther is no need to speculate on the motive for acts that were never committed, and the only evidence advanced for their commission is entirely composed of lies.

You have memorized the new dogma of the great and powerful W, and you spout it forth like it actually was logic.

Newsflash - he's been out of office for a couple of years. And quite a few of us think his actions over Iraq were close to, if not actually, criminal. You, on the other hand, have decided that all evil acts are committed by the Bush Administration, and chosen to repeat a set of lies which give the appearance of supporting this conclusion.

Dave