Michelle Bachmann could be our next president.

[Bri]

Really? Perhaps a review of of the post in which you presented that statement, and the posts leading up to it, would be helpful.

Rather than doubling down, I'll stand corrected.

I did respond that Obama "lies plenty" as a response to a post by Magyar who said "OH, yes, please DO point out where the lies are in this because unless I put on my rush limbaugh/ Ann Culter coloured glasses I sure don't see it!"

I probably also said that Bachmann lies even though in reality it's difficult to prove that someone was lying rather than simply mistaken.

At no point did you say, Oh, by the way -- that list I posted? Well, even though I offered it as examples of how frequently Obama lies, some of the things on it aren't actually lies. My apologies, I cut and pasted a bit too quickly. Let me go back through and remove the examples which don't actually support the point AlBell and I were trying to make..

As for the list, I was replying to your statement that "one technique often used by such people is this: when they have good examples to support a point they are making, they will provide the actual examples... "

So I provided actual examples of Obama making false statements.

Now, 2 pages later, you say that the laundry list you provided of Obama's frequent lies was not intended to be a list of lies. Now, 2 pages later, you say that the item people selected from that list to examine (since you refused to select any item from the list which you thought was a good one) is not a good example of the point.

The list was a list of statements rated "false" or "pants on fire" by PolitiFact, as I indicated when I posted it. And I never said that the item about preventive care wasn't a good example of the point. It was indeed an example of a false statement made by Obama.

It was your responsibility to select relevant examples from the PolitiFact list which you felt were good evidence for the point you were trying to make. If you had taken the time to do that, we would not have gotten off on this digression. And you would not be telling us, 2 pages later, that the example from the list you provided to illustrate how frequently Obama lies is not actually an example of a lie at all.

If I was really attempting to defend any one of the statements I might have chosen one to defend, but that wasn't my point. My point was that Obama has plenty of false statements on PolitiFact. And I posted the list to prove it, as you requested.

And of course, I never said that the example from the list I provided to illustrate how frequently Obama lies is not actually an example of a lie at all. I said that it's an example of a false statement made by Obama.

-Bri

 

[leftysergeant]

Whatever. It really doesn't matter in the long run whether one method is better than the other for delivering effective health care.

The wrong wingers just don't want to do it. They want to let the insurance companies got on bleeding us dry because they themselves own a piece of the action or are fully owned by the insurers.

Idiot boy Ryan's voucher plan is not going to get a senior citizen in my shape an affordable health insurance policy. Medicare for All would get it for everybody.

And that slimy little twit Bachmann thinks that pruning $4.5 B from VA health care is not going to hurt the country to a far greater extent.

Republicons who are not idiots are sociopaths or swindlers.

 

[JudeBrando]

I believe Michelle Bachmann to be a fundamentally good and decent person.

That is what matters most.

I do not expect perfection. However, now that she fully understands the scrutiny, I would expect improvement.

If Barack Obama is qualified, anyone who can get there is qualified.

 

[leftysergeant]

I believe Michelle Bachmann to be a fundamentally good and decent person.

She's evil and a liar and a nutjob.

She wants to take food out of the mouths of disabled veterans before anyone even suggests raising taxes on dirtbag war profiteers.

I do not want to be standing nearby when she has to explain that one to God at the End of Ages.

She is not fit to govern a nation trying to recover from a war like the Shrub got us into.

 

[JudeBrando]

The house divided is clear.


And don't pretend God is your concern. You are accountable for your every word.

 

[leftysergeant]

And don't pretend God is your concern. You are accountable for your every word.

Stop that. I cannot tolerate a religious hypocrite to write evil laws that do harm to people in contradiction to her own professed religious values.

Jesus said to feed the hungry.

Idiot girl Bachmann thinks it is okay to take food away from disabled veterans so that parasitic gazillionaires don't have to give up caviar.

There's a special place for her kind in hell.

 

[Drysdale]

Better her than another term of "The Golfer".

 

[johnny karate]

I believe Michelle Bachmann to be a fundamentally good and decent person.

Other than the fact that she's a bigot, yeah, she's a real sweetheart.

 

[Ausmerican]

Better her than another term of "The Golfer".

Dont worry, I am sure W isnt planning on running again.
Unless you mean Obama. In that case, you are not rational if you think Bachmann is a better choice. She isnt even a better choice than most of the other assorted morons that the GOP is running this time around.

 

[bikerdruid]

Better her than another term of "The Golfer".

dude...'the golfer' is that other black guy.
i don't think he was ever president.
i know that some americans think that they all look alike.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Preventative health care saves lives. What's the price of a life?

 

[Regnad Kcin]

I believe Michelle Bachmann to be a fundamentally good and decent person.

That is what matters most.

I do not expect perfection. However, now that she fully understands the scrutiny, I would expect improvement.

If Barack Obama is qualified, anyone who can get there is qualified.

Say, how's that birth certificate thing going?

 

[Drysdale]

dude...'the golfer' is that other black guy.
i don't think he was ever president.
i know that some americans think that they all look alike.

Huh?

Yet another "you must be a racist" remark with no provocation.
I guess that's pretty much all the defense the left has now though.

No, I know exactly to whom I refer.
The golfer that resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Did he not just deride congress for not working hard enough?
And now he's off to play golf again right?

Think that says it all.

 

[Drysdale]

Dont worry, I am sure W isnt planning on running again.
Unless you mean Obama. In that case, you are not rational if you think Bachmann is a better choice. She isnt even a better choice than most of the other assorted morons that the GOP is running this time around.

I would hope "W" doesn't run again even if he could.

After 2 lemons,totaling 3 terms in a row hopefully someone decent can take over.

 

[Ausmerican]

I would hope "W" doesn't run again even if he could.

After 2 lemons,totaling 3 terms in a row hopefully someone decent can take over.

Maybe so but you were referring to Michelle Bachmann, not someone decent.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I believe Michelle Bachmann to be a fundamentally good and decent person.

That is what matters most.

I do not expect perfection. However, now that she fully understands the scrutiny, I would expect improvement.

If Barack Obama is qualified, anyone who can get there is qualified.

Obama has not made public statements like Congress-folk should be investigated for anti-American activities. Nor has he made ignorant claims about the founding fathers working tirelessly against slavery.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'd be happy to discuss that, but it's not what we were discussing. Sure, preventive measures can save monetary costs if those measures concentrate on the 19% or so that actually do save money. In addition, more research needs to be done on improving preventive measures so that they are more efficient in terms of monetary costs and more effective in terms of prevention. Improvements in identification and targeting of more specific populations for preventive measures could also reduce costs. And as I've said all along, some preventive measures that don't save money are still worth the extra costs because they save lives.

-Bri

You keep insisting I haven't been talking about this when I most definitely have been.

Here, I'll slow it down a bit for you.

Obama used 2 examples of insurance costs that screening tests would result in lower costs. But he was talking more broadly about saving money on health care by spending more on preventative care.

If you just want to argue about his examples, say so. I specifically addressed those examples. Basic colorectal cancer screening (fecal occult blood test) saves more money than it costs. Colonoscopies don't. Mammogram cost is equal to 30-100% of the saved cancer treatment costs. In both cases medical researchers are looking to better target who to screen and how often to optimize the cost saving. Also, we are getting better at not finding so many false positives. That will save money by reducing the cost of unnecessary follow-up, (a cost which is taken into account in the analyses). It may be that in the near future the screening tests do cost less than the cost of the cancer they prevent.

If you are arguing that the concept of preventive care itself does not save money, then you are wrong. And I have explained why the one study being cited here is being misinterpreted and does not support your claim. But rather than address the details I pointed out, you chose to believe your argument by authority. I can't help you there. If you don't know enough about the medical care or the review to discuss it intelligently, then go right ahead and rely on authority.

 

[leftysergeant]

I would hope "W" doesn't run again even if he could.

After 2 lemons,totaling 3 terms in a row hopefully someone decent can take over.

That leaves out an unpatriotic bimbo like Bachmann.

People who abuse military veterans are not fit to be president.

 

[SezMe]

Rather than doubling down, I'll stand corrected. <snip remainder>

This was an interesting post. You opened by saying you weren't going to double down, then proceeded in the rest of the post to ... double down.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

If Barack Obama is qualified, anyone who can get there is qualified.

I'd rather not stretch it that far. Obama based his campaign on a motto of Hope and Change, and came out to most of his base a "rock star" with his charisma. In practice his qualifications have had extremely mixed results, and he's facing a nightmare of a setup between a huge national debt, and high unemployment with a still-crimped economic outlook.

In an ideal world people would look at character, qualifications, and policy objectively, but I can't remember a time where anyone including myself have done that in practice. I'm for a decent person, but I also want a politician who can be honest with his politics and practical, something that's quite hard to get with the influence of each party's base. TO her credit she's probably been exposed longer than a lot of the other candidates with her outreach in the tea party movement... If she plays it right she can do an effective campaign, something Obama did spectacularly well on during his election bid the first time around.