General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[The Fool]

No, I'm asking you since this is your proposal and not the UN's.

I'll repeat my response....read past the first three words this time...you may even consider having a go at the question too.

ask the UN, they are the ones that run the peacekeeping actions. But my thoughts are they would be observing and monitoring compliance on such things as ....not shooting at each other....that sort of thing. Probably from the palestinian side because I doubt if Israel would allow UN troops in Israel......thats if you can get a statement from them of where Israel actually is.....which is the point of possibly having to impose borders even if they are subject to change in the future.

whats your suggestion for what to do if agreement continues to not happen?

 

[theprestige]

But my thoughts are they would be observing and monitoring compliance on such things as ....not shooting at each other....that sort of thing.

What are your thoughts on what the UN should or would do if they observed non-compliance?

 

[The Fool]

What are your thoughts on what the UN should or would do if they observed non-compliance?

It would depend on their rules of engagement...They may be a totally unarmed peacekeeping force. In that case observing and reporting would be the limit. If they were armed and Authorised they may use force to prevent the actions...

what are your thoughts??

 

[mortimer]

My thoughts on The Fool's UN proposal is that I would find it more likely that the UN would be involved in enforcing a non-negotiated border between Australian Aboriginals and Australian's European settlers than be involved in enforcing a non-negotiated border between the Palestinians and Israel.

 

[WildCat]

I'll repeat my response....read past the first three words this time...you may even consider having a go at the question too.

You can repeat that all you like, but aren't you skipping a step? Like the one where Israel and the PA agree to have a UN presence?

 

[The Fool]

My thoughts on The Fool's UN proposal is that I would find it more likely that the UN would be involved in enforcing a non-negotiated border between Australian Aboriginals and Australian's European settlers than be involved in enforcing a non-negotiated border between the Palestinians and Israel.

rather difficult considering all Autsralians are australian citizens.....But hey, possibly you can't tell the difference.?

I'd like to hear any possible alternatives you have? we'll all just wait forever eh?

 

[The Fool]

You can repeat that all you like, but aren't you skipping a step? Like the one where Israel and the PA agree to have a UN presence?

I've covered this already....you may be surprised at what people agree too if the alternatives are much worse....But hey, you have your welded on premise so I guess you will be keeping your opinions within that box...How did UN troops end up in Lebanon? Israel didn't say no?

There seems to be an immediate reaction of fear and loathing when any suggestion involves taking the fate of Palestinians out of the sole hand of Israel.....why is that? You complain about the attacks on Israel but absolutely insist that nobody else is involved in addressing the problem....why is that?

If the US and the EU said "Under the banner of the UN we are going to go in and put an end to the regime that is randomly attacking Israeli civilians" Wildcat says NOOOOO please don't put an end to the attacks?

This has gone on too long. I believe its time to put an end to it rather than the endless posturing of stupid people achieving nothing...

 

[mortimer]

rather difficult considering all Autsralians are australian citizens.....But hey, possibly you can't tell the difference.?

I never said it'd be easy. But after all, all groups who are under foreign control long for self-determination right? Shouldn't the Aborigines get that chance at self-determination?

I'd like to hear any possible alternatives you have? we'll all just wait forever eh?

My alternative is to let the two come to an arrangement on their own. If they don't, eventually Arabs will outnumber Jews, so it's in Israel's best interest to make sure such an arrangement is made, eventually.

 

[WildCat]

I've covered this already....you may be surprised at what people agree too if the alternatives are much worse....But hey, you have your welded on premise so I guess you will be keeping your opinions within that box...How did UN troops end up in Lebanon? Israel didn't say no?

Israel is not Lebanon. And the UN troops in Lebanon have been absolutely worthless. They sit by while Hezbollah increases their arms stockpiles, which they are supposed to prevent.

How are the UN troops going to enter the West Bank without Israel's permission?

 

[The Fool]

Israel is not Lebanon. And the UN troops in Lebanon have been absolutely worthless. They sit by while Hezbollah increases their arms stockpiles, which they are supposed to prevent.

how good they are is not the issue its their presence that casts doubt on your claims that Israel would never agree to a UN presence.

How are the UN troops going to enter the West Bank without Israel's permission?

why do they Need Israels permission? Why do you want Israel to protect Terrorists from UN forces?

 

[mortimer]

how good they are is not the issue its their presence that casts doubt on your claims that Israel would never agree to a UN presence.

Who claimed that Israel would never agree to a UN presence?

For someone who constantly whines about their position being misrepresented, you sure do misrepresent others' positions with impunity.

why do they Need Israels permission? Why do you want Israel to protect Terrorists from UN forces?

They need Israel's permission because Israel is the occupying force in the West Bank.

And there you go again, misrepresenting others' positions. Nobody said they wanted Israel to protect terrorists from UN forces.

 

[The Fool]

Who claimed that Israel would never agree to a UN presence?

read the damn thread eh?????

They need Israel's permission because Israel is the occupying force in the West Bank.



And there you go again, misrepresenting others' positions. Nobody said they wanted Israel to protect terrorists from UN forces.

they said they thought Israel would prevent the UN forces from getting at them....all that needing permission stuff.

Palestinians are a world issue....can you have a go at the question of why their fate must forever lie in the hands of Israel?

 

[WildCat]

how good they are is not the issue its their presence that casts doubt on your claims that Israel would never agree to a UN presence.

How good they are as everything to do with whether Israel gives permission. And I don;t see that happening, since Israel has already seen how Hezbollah arms itself under the noses of an impotent UN and has no desire for Hamas to do the same.

why do they Need Israels permission?

Because Israel controls the territory now. Without Israel's permission there is no UN personnel to watch Hamas arm themselves.

 

[The Fool]

How good they are as everything to do with whether Israel gives permission. And I don;t see that happening, since Israel has already seen how Hezbollah arms itself under the noses of an impotent UN and has no desire for Hamas to do the same.

Because Israel controls the territory now. Without Israel's permission there is no UN personnel to watch Hamas arm themselves.

Hamas...you have waffled on this forum for a long time that Israel doesn't control Gaza since the "disengagement" then Israeli permission would not be needed for action in Gaza.... so why are you suddenly talking of Israels control......ooops, thats the problem with inconsistant positions isn't it. The mask slips sometimes.

can you clarify....does Israel control Gaza or not?

 

[mortimer]

read the damn thread eh?????

Read. Nobody has said that Israel would never accept a UN presence. So feel free to provide evidence that someone has, or retract. I would suggest you do one of those two things before you start whining again about people misrepresenting your positions.

they said they thought Israel would prevent the UN forces from getting at them....all that needing permission stuff.

Who is they? And would is different than could. I can point you to an online dictionary if you require more assistance with the distinction.

Palestinians are a world issue....can you have a go at the question of why their fate must forever lie in the hands of Israel?

How are they a world issue moreso than the Australian Aborigines? Should the world decide how the Aborigine issue is resolved, to the point of sending in UN troops?

 

[mortimer]

Hamas...you have waffled on this forum for a long time that Israel doesn't control Gaza since the "disengagement" then Israeli permission would not be needed for action in Gaza.... so why are you suddenly talking of Israels control......ooops, thats the problem with inconsistant positions isn't it. The mask slips sometimes.

can you clarify....does Israel control Gaza or not?

You realize that Hamas is a significant force in the West Bank, and that Fatah recently welcomed them into the Palestinian fold, right?

 

[WildCat]

Hamas...you have waffled on this forum for a long time that Israel doesn't control Gaza since the "disengagement" then Israeli permission would not be needed for action in Gaza.... so why are you suddenly talking of Israels control......ooops, thats the problem with inconsistant positions isn't it. The mask slips sometimes.

can you clarify....does Israel control Gaza or not?

Israel does not control Gaza. They do, however, control access to Gaza in order to keep weapons from Hamas.

Not that this will clear anything up for you, you've been pretending to be confused about this for a long, long time.

 

[The Fool]

Israel does not control Gaza. They do, however, control access to Gaza in order to keep weapons from Hamas.

Not that this will clear anything up for you, you've been pretending to be confused about this for a long, long time.

Israel controls the Egyptian borders? If a brass band wanted to march into gaza from Egypt how would Israel stop it?

 

[WildCat]

Israel controls the Egyptian borders? If a brass band wanted to march into gaza from Egypt how would Israel stop it?

You are delusional if you think the UN is going to occupy Gaza.

 

[Virus]

Israel controls the Egyptian borders? If a brass band wanted to march into gaza from Egypt how would Israel stop it?

Egypt is supposed to control its own border with Gaza. Which they have a lot of difficulty doing because the army is so corrupt.