Merged Cold Fusion Claims

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Craig B said:
EcatNews is a rattling good read, by the way. The interview (25 June) with one of the most valued e-cat believers is fascinating http://ecatnews.com/?paged=2

but guess what!
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Oh, that is truly lolworthy... "How inconsiderate of the scientists and the science press failing to assist in creating a speculative buzz around our scam!! Don't you lot know what you're supposed to be doing?"
 
Have we seen any of this nonsense from the actual governmental agencies that supposedly plan to do the testing?

Also, I find it VERY suspect that this is going on in Greece, a place where the government is in near-anarchy. Ripe for fraud.
 
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HoverBoarder said:
Defkalion GT said:
Out of the CE standards, Hyperion products (kW or MW range) have to pass all tests described the Greek and EU lows according to their industrial code classification.
The Authorities responsible to test and certify are
-The Ministry of Regional Development and Industry
-The Ministry of Environment and Energy
through their appointed by low labs.

If you can read greek, we can send to you all relevant legislation for your info.
Thank you for your question
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BenBurch said:
Have we seen any of this nonsense from the actual governmental agencies that supposedly plan to do the testing?

Also, I find it VERY suspect that this is going on in Greece, a place where the government is in near-anarchy. Ripe for fraud.
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You also have to ask, "What are these "CE standards" that they will be meeting?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark#Meaning

CE marking does not indicate that a product was made in the EEA,[4] but merely states that the product is assessed before being placed on the market and thus satisfies the legislative requirements (e.g. a harmonised level of safety) to be sold there. It means that the manufacturer has verified that the product complies with all relevant “essential requirements” (e.g. safety, health, environmental protection requirements) of the applicable directive(s) – or, if stipulated in the directive(s), had it examined by a notified conformity assessment body.
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http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/cemarking/


The CE marking is required for many products. It states that the product is assessed before being placed on the market and meets EU safety, health and environmental protection requirements. Through this website the European Commission provides economic operators and consumers with information on how the process of affixing the CE marking on a product works.
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So, yeah, their can of nickel powder will be certified as safe, healthy and environmentally protective-y.

Notice this doesn't say anything about it actually doing what they say it will do. They're trumpeting a certification that is largely meaningless to the central question of whether or not their produce is a scam or not.

Which is exactly what a lot of alternative health product producers do, just as an aside.
 
benburch said:
have we seen any of this nonsense from the actual governmental agencies that supposedly plan to do the testing?

also, i find it very suspect that this is going on in greece, a place where the government is in near-anarchy. Ripe for fraud.
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bingo!
 
Kid Eager said:
And so the deliberate confusion begins - which Hyperion products does this refer to - those that Defkalion has usurped the name for, or those made by the Hyperion company?
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From what they have said, "Hyperion" is just the exact same E-Cat device, but without all of the bad press that have pointed to the E-Cat being completely faked.
 
Horatius said:
You also have to ask, "What are these "CE standards" that they will be meeting?"


So, yeah, their can of nickel powder will be certified as safe, healthy and environmentally protective-y.

Notice this doesn't say anything about it actually doing what they say it will do. They're trumpeting a certification that is largely meaningless to the central question of whether or not their produce is a scam or not.

Which is exactly what a lot of alternative health product producers do, just as an aside.
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Well in one of their videos, they boast that one of their E-Cats exploded, "which proves that it works."

Haha

I am not sure what that would do to prove that this device was "safe."
 
There is also a pretty funny discussion here:

http://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2829&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=3000

Regarding the Ny Teknik video from 3:05 to 4:10.

At first there is no sound of steam coming out the pipe, than the cameraman starts walking over to look at the steam coming out of Rossi's magic pipe, and Rossi starts fiddling with the controls, and presto, there is steam!

Oh how I wish this site would let you hotlink pictures from the thread, it is pretty funny. :D
 
unclep2k said:
Krivit really hammered Rossi in the 2nd part of his report on the ecat
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He is pretty pissed, and he is not done either. From the article:

"My next report will explore, from a technical perspective, why his claims are flawed. Today's report will focus on two reasons that his process is fundamentally flawed. The two matters are distinct but interrelated: science by proxy, and evasion of scientific debate."
 
Andrea Rossi
June 28th, 2011 at 5:24 PM
Dear Michael Cox:
The “analysis” of Peter Ekstrom is wrong, based on wrong data. Days ago a clown made a similar “analysis” calculating difficult data from the television. I thought that this kind of thing were made only by clowns. Now I see that there are physics that do the same. I answered to the clown that I was impressed from his ability. To a physic I answer that I am very much impressed.
The “movie professor” has forgot that the steam condensates, that when condensates it turns into very hot water and the heat lost goes to the surface of the pipe, heating it,therefore :
1- the pipe gets very hot (80-90 °C) radiating up to 1 Wh/h (thermal) per square cm across a surface of thousands of square cm (5400 in this case). This heat has to be calculated. If not we forget that when we keep warm our house during the winter, radiators heat up at expense of the circulating hot water. 5400 sq. cm x 1 wh/h makes up to 5.4 thermal kW that can go that way.
2- the hot water burns, so I emptied the condensed water from the pipe to avoid that a jet of hot water could burn my face (as once, unfortunately, happened): why did I make this? Because I am not masochist. And: shaking the pipe I made it free from the morse of the mouth of the sink.
3- the temperature of the fluid inside the vertical chimney was more than 100.1 °C, and the pressure measured was room pressure. Should the water have been liquid, at room pressure the temperature in a vertical chimney would have been 99 °C, because, for the gravity, the chimney would have been filled up by water, and water at 100.1 °C, at room P, cannot be liquid.
I have not the time to correct the many other mistakes of our “movie-professor”, because I worked 16 hours, time is 2 a.m. and I must go to sleep, tomorrow other 16 hours of work: no more time for “movie-professors”
Besides, clowneries apart, I answer with my plants. In October we will start up our first plant of 1 MW in Greece. I will send a movie of it to the clown and to Peter Ekstrom , maybe they will join together to find the way to explain to the persons that will utilize the plant that it does not work, because they saw it in the movie!
By the way: we made as well tests heating water, without phase change, and the efficiency has been the same, as published. Anyway, let me set up a good operating plant, and all the snakes, clowns and movie-professors will be swept away; their arms are chatters (and movies too), my arms are working plants.
…and I have a surprise…but it will come in October.
Warm regards,
A.R.

Taken from
 
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"the pipe gets very hot (80-90 °C) "

But is still held by hand on some other video. Fancy that.

And none of the argument he have was really a refutation, as he allegedly had the device run for quite some time if I remember correctly, which would mean by then the hose would have been at high temperature, and thus msot of the steam would not condensate. Leading again to ask "why so few steam".
 
HoverBoarder said:
Here is a pretty good new video that just came out on Rossi's device.

While I am pretty much 100% convinced that Rossi's device is fake based on all of the evidence that I have seen that points that way, this was an interesting story, and there were two parts that I thought were the most interesting....
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What I got from the video, based on Levi's statements, was that Levi made some measurements prior to the experiment starting without the knowledge of Rossi. During start up and prior to the "reaction", the instruments registered ordinary water heating conditions.

Every observer was in a different room to the device.

Rossi then went into the room where the device was, on his own and unobserved, and just after that the "reaction" began - he came out of the room and announced as much.

After that, the instruments began registering gamma and other emmissions.

To me this smacks of a classic scam perpetuated on scientists who have placed too much trust in the integrity of their colleague.
 
I'm pretty disappointed, was really hoping Rossi had stumbled on something, the Krivit video convinced me I had been in fantasy land. Get the feeling now that Rossi is coming unglued and this event is about to unravel.
 
Aepervius said:
"the pipe gets very hot (80-90 °C) "

But is still held by hand on some other video. Fancy that.

And none of the argument he have was really a refutation, as he allegedly had the device run for quite some time if I remember correctly, which would mean by then the hose would have been at high temperature, and thus msot of the steam would not condensate. Leading again to ask "why so few steam".
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I asked the same exact question on the Defkalion forum:


Why So Little Steam???

In all of the E-cat videos, there is very little steam, far less than the than amount that would be required for the power that Rossi is calulating, and far less than the power that Defkalion is calculating. Why is that?????

in the Ny Teknik video at 3:10-3:50



At first there is no sound of steam coming out the pipe as the cameraman starts walking over to look at the steam coming out of Rossi's pipe, and than after the camera looks at the pipe for awhile, suddenly steam starts coming out in bursts. As the cameraman walks back to Rossi, Rossi is fiddling with the controls, and he nervously drops his hand as the camera approaches.

Why is there so little steam in the videos (far less than what would be required to generate the amount of power Rossi and Defkalion have been projecting)??


---
in response, the dry/wet steam argument was brought up:

Have you ever seen truly dry steam in the range of 5kW (lower in the video you linked to) power coming out of a hose that has the approximate diameter of say 20mm with low condensation?

And please do not compare wet steam with dry steam, they are not the same in the slightest.
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My response to that was:



Yep, that has already been addressed.

It doesn't matter if it is dry or wet steam, as the dry steam would still affect the velocity of the wet steam coming out of the pipe, and it would also affect the ripples of water in the bucket and the temperature in the bucket.

If the volume of steam was anywhere near what Rossi or Defkalion were claiming, than in the Ny Teknik videos and others:

1) The steam would not start comming out in much higher bursts only when the cameraman walks near the bucket.
2) The heat of the pipe, if the volume of steam was at the levels that Rossi and Defkalion are claiming, would not allow the cameraman to handle the hose as he does.
3) The velocity of the steam would be much different.
4) the water ripples would be much different.
5) The whole area around the bucket would look like a sauna.


As the results are MUCH different than the claims, it is fair to ask, why the MAJOR difference? Why so little steam??????
 
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The steam coming from the rubber hose in the Krivit video convinced me that the device wasn't putting out much energy. The visible steam plume wasn't powerful enough to blow a whistle on a tea kettle, let alone turn a turbine. The visible plume was floating like a cloud in the sky. If there had been a powerful blast of invisible dry stream shooting by, it certainly would have disturbed the visible plume.
 
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