IDB87
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It's self-evident that he likes to speak in a repeating manner.
Moonbat alert: Chomksy condemns Bin Laden kill.
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It's self-evident that he likes to speak in a repeating manner.
Really?
Let` s speak about you.
I assume you are American, so there is another American citizen I would like to speak about.
Henry Kissinger extended an already criminal war of aggression in Vietnam by 4 years justified solely by "trying to save face".
He hatched a plan with the rest of the Nixon gang to disrupt the Paris peace negotiations; they secretly offered south Vietnam a better deal than what they could achieve at the negotiating table if they withdrew from the negotiations. Kissinger was the one who reported to Nixon the current position of the US peace negotation to keep him up to date. Private, secret diplomacy is highly illegal in the US(see Logan act) and anywhere else with a functioning justice system as well as blatantly treasonous. This act probably won Nixon the election and definitely derailed the peace negotiations.
The saturation bombing campaign in french indochina was extended by 4 years, it was extended by Kissinger into neutral Laos and Cambodia(contributed greatly to bringing Pol Pot to power), directed largely at civilian populations; this "secret" bombing was of course not secret to the Cambodians or Laotians; it was only secret for american citizens and the congress.
Kissinger and Nixon were intimately involved in the "two track" policy for Chilé, which involved a public, ostensibly diplomatic approach and a secret(even to the state department and US embassadors) policy of assasinations, kidnap and destabilization to foment a military coup in Chilé. It took 3 tries to get general René Schneider, but the predictable consequences of the military dictatorship that ensued was torture and political assasinations on a massive scale(especially predictable given the presense of chilean military officers as the infamous "school of the americas", which has trained more dictators than any other school in history).
Kissinger is still alive.
How many times you went out in the street publicly asking for Mr. Kissinger to be put on trial and killed?
JP
In the US and in the West nobody would care if 3000 Iranians or Vietnamese were killed.
This is a fact.
Did anybody in the West cared when Saddam killed far more than 3000 Iranian civlians? Nope.
Did anybody in the West cared when Vietnmese civilians were napalm-ed by American troops during Vietnam war? Yes, as they were mostly (tacitly or openly) supporting such action.
JP
I forgot to reply about this.
I absolutely agree with you.
Chinese would not care anything about American deaths.
Japanese would not care about Chinese deaths.
No, that's not a fact, it's a bare assertion made by you. And you make several more in this post. Pictures of napalmed Vietnamese shamed America and led to opposition to that war and its departure from that conflict.
IDB87
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Sorry, this has nothing to do with how we Americans feel about Kissinger. In fact he was protested in NYC this past May. I wasn't there. Does that mean I support Kissinger, or that I turn a blind eye to the crimes committed in Vietnam?
Where do you get your rationale?
A part from the single My Lai massacre, can you tell me if and how many US generals, commanders and soldiers where put on trial for the repeated human rights violations (=deliberated killings) done by American troops?
Can you provide me evidence?
From the Russell Tribunal on Vietnam War
(wikipedia)
The Tribunal stated that its conclusions were:
1. Has the Government of the United States committed acts of aggression against Vietnam under the terms of international law?
Yes (unanimously).
2. Has there been, and if so, on what scale, bombardment of purely civilian targets, for example, hospitals, schools, medical establishments, dams, etc?
Yes (unanimously).
We find the government and armed forces of the United States are guilty of the deliberate, systematic and large-scale bombardment of civilian targets, including civilian populations, dwellings, villages, dams, dikes, medical establishments, leper colonies, schools, churches, pagodas, historical and cultural monuments. We also find unanimously, with one abstention, that the government of the United States of America is guilty of repeated violations of the sovereignty, neutrality and territorial integrity of Cambodia, that it is guilty of attacks against the civilian population of a certain number of Cambodian towns and villages.
3. Have the governments of Australia, New Zealand and South Korea been accomplices of the United States in the aggression against Vietnam in violation of international law?
Yes (unanimously).
The question also arises as to whether or not the governments of Thailand and other countries have become accomplices to acts of aggression or other crimes against Vietnam and its populations. We have not been able to study this question during the present session. We intend to examine at the next session legal aspects of the problem and to seek proofs of any incriminating facts.
4. Is the Government of Thailand guilty of complicity in the aggression committed by the United States Government against Vietnam?
Yes (unanimously).
5. Is the Government of the Philippines guilty of complicity in the aggression committed by the United States Government against Vietnam?
Yes (unanimously).
6. Is the Government of Japan guilty of complicity in the aggression committed by the United States Government against Vietnam?
Yes, (by 8 Votes to 3).
The three Tribunal members who voted against agree that the Japanese Government gives considerable aid to the Government of the United States, but do not agree on its complicity in the crime of aggression.
7. Has the United States Government committed aggression against the people of Laos, according to the definition provided by international law?
Yes (unanimously).
8. Have the armed forces of the United States used or experimented with weapons prohibited by the laws of war?
Yes (unanimously).
9. Have prisoners of war captured by the armed forces of the United States been subjected to treatment prohibited by the laws of war?
Yes (unanimously).
10. Have the armed forces of the United States subjected the civilian population to inhuman treatment prohibited by international law?
Yes (unanimously).
11. Is the United States Government guilty of genocide against the people of Vietnam?
Yes (unanimously).
Prompted in part by the My Lai massacre, in 1969 the Bertrand Russell Peace Foundation organized Citizens Commissions of Inquiry (CCI) to hold hearings intended to document testimony of war crimes in Indochina. These hearings were held in several American cities, and would eventually form the foundation of two national investigations: the National Veterans Inquiry sponsored by the CCI, and the Winter Soldier Investigation sponsored by the Vietnam Veterans Against the War.
If you are free to protest and in a country with freedom of speech, you have one of your fellow citizens who (let`s suppose for a second you agree on this) is guilty of war crimes and you do not do much about it, this is what I call tacitly supporting him.
IDB87
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This has nothing to do with how we as American and Westerners (and JREFers) feel about the My Lai Massacre and other atrocities.
Why don't you ask us?
Why it has nothing to do?
I saw many people in the US partying the day bin Laden was killed.
I saw none of such people going out in the street to ask for Kissinger being put on trial.
The only logical conclusion is that I can get is that most (if not all) American people do not care about what Kissinger did.
As he ordered the killing of non-American citizens.
If you have other explanations of this "duplicity" please feel free to provide explanations
IDB87
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It may say something about me (more to do with financial constraints that prevent me from traveling very far), but it says nothing about Americans and Westerners as a whole. Like I said, Kissinger was protested last week in NYC. Your time would be better spent asking us how we feel about Kissinger to get an idea as to how we as American's feel about...Kissinger.
IDB87
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I'm sure you weren't doing anything remotely similar.
Go back and pay attention to the mass demonstrations that took place during the Vietnam war.
You can protest just out of your house.
Giving out leaflets asking for Kissinger being put on trial.
Did you do this?
Yeah.
I agree there is about 0.1% of the US population that does protest against war crimes even if done by the US military.
Maybe I was wrong on that.
Not 100% of the US people give a blind eye to the crimes done by their own country, it is more like 99% or 98%.
Or 95%.
Or 99.3%.
JP
Where were you during the Vietnam conflict? Because if you were sentient you certainly missed the protests in the U.S.
Keep up with the bare assertions about how Americans and Westerners feel. Also, keep jumping to conclusions.
ETA Don't parrot Chomsky; it's best to develop your own writing style.
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Yawn..
Which led to JFK being put on trial, charged with crimes against humanity and shot.
Oh wait..
The name of the main airport of NYC is ..
JP
See my replies above
Just looking at facts, Mr. Resume, just looking at facts.
I am only posting facts.
Are we starting ad-hominem attacks already?
So early..
Actually you're not. The fact is, you wouldn't recognize one.
ETA Plus, you don't know the difference between advice and an ad-hom.
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Facts:
1) "[Nixon] doesn't want to hear anything," says Dr Kissinger, stressing the need for secrecy. "It's an order, it's to be done. Anything that flies on everything that moves. You got that?"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ingers-tapes-put-Nixon-lies-in-spotlight.html
2) Mr. Kissinger was not charged with crimes against humanity
Assertion:
In the US and in the West nobody would care if 3000 Iranians or Vietnamese were killed.
Broad brush, hasty generalization.