Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Really; how many other people, do you have names etc?

Ask Italian cops for the names. Maybe they'll explain also why they failed to collect that piece for more then a month, who and when moved it, why did it get so dirty during that time and why so many people needed to rub it with dirty fingers. It would be also nice to know why there is only Guede's DNA on the bra itself. Why there is plenty of Guede there in the room and nothing of Raffaele or Amanda.
 
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I wonder how many of those (s)he's received? I'm going to take a guess at very few, as most of us who don't think Knox (or Sollecito, but TCS likes to gloss over him) should be convicted are rational sceptics who evaluate claims based on evidence and logic.

I've deleated all expect the most recent which I'll gladly forward you, if you want a taste as to what some of your "rational secptics" do behind the scenes.
 
Not a good idea to announce your intentions in advance, in my opinion. If you can hold off on the abuse I think we'd all appreciate it. Thanks.

Hehehe.

Although, I think a more accurate warning in this case would be: "Get ready for a bunch of ill-though-out arguments, in which I will defend my position to the bitter end, even when it becomes an argumentum ad absurdum. And did I mention that I really HATE Knox and Sollecito?"

:p
 
So as it's now been confirmed that the translation was wrong, what did your best buddy Tony and his pals have to say when you gave them a piece of your mind? I'm sure I'm not the only one desperate to hear.

Of course I could just bypass your best buddy Tony (who used to be the boss of Sky Music Italia) and go to the brand leaders MTV to see what they think, if you feel that would be more helpful?

Seems to be a personal penchant for and very predictable perennial personal problem with this abbreviated form of 'arguing' you proffer.

The above short argumentative questions are nearly a full day late and about 20+ posts of previous requests/replies on record already

Therefore, please consider for your next one line argument and/or request:

1) one of your teammates berates opponents for flogging deceased equines

2) another wants to conserve cyberspace

3) many constantly berate opponents arguments if they do not produce redundant timelines or elaborate theories that can be immediately ridiculed.
 
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I've deleated all expect the most recent which I'll gladly forward you, if you want a taste as to what some of your "rational secptics" do behind the scenes.


Do they contain good spelling? That's very important to me. :D

If you get abusive PM's wing them over to the relevant powers-that-be. Nobody deserves that sort of treatment, and there are appropriate remedies here.
 
Try to keep up Matthew. I was speaking of the abuse someone gets if they dare to even suggest that Saint Amanda of Perugia is guilty.

Yes, asking for rational explanation of their beliefs is abuse :rolleyes:. So is showing how gullible someone is, especially when he/she boasts about his/her skepticism ;)
 
Ooh, this is interesting. Where in the Skype conversation with Benedetti does Guede say that the man he grappled with had a Southern Italian accent, or indeed any accent at all? And where does he refer to Knox, other than that the person ringing the doorbell might have been her (illogically)?


The Skype converstaion is translated on PMF as I said.

I then put a line to separate it from Guede's defense, which is examined in great detail in the Micheli report.
 
electropherogram for the bra clasp

Really; how many other people, do you have names etc?
CoulsdonUK,

I have looked at the bra clasp electropherogram. I would say a minimum of two people besides Meredith and Raffaele, possibly more. A better answer would require the EDFs and more expertise than I have.
 
Ask Italian cops for the names. Maybe they'll explain also why they failed to collect that piece for more then a month, who and when moved it, why did it get so dirty during that time and why so many people needed to rub it with dirty fingers. It would be also nice to know why there is only Guede's DNA on the bra itself. Why there is plenty of Guede there in the room and nothing of Raffaele or Amanda.
Why would I ask Italian cops you stated in your earlier post “that bra clasp shows Raffaele and quite a few other people”; I naturally assumed you would be able to provide names well apart from Raffaele’s which kind of suggests that you believe his DNA is on Meredith’s bra clasp, was that your intention?
 
Rudi's letter

Probably didn't have to offer Guede much to get him to contradict himself - again. Maybe a subscription to a magazine that all serial killers are known to love.

Was Mignini in the court today? Didn't he produce the letter that supposedly Guede wrote?
Justinian2,

I have my doubts about the letter. See this.
 
The Skype converstaion is translated on PMF as I said.

I then put a line to separate it from Guede's defense, which is examined in great detail in the Micheli report.


Ahh I see. It wasn't immediately apparent (to me, at least) that the line was there to delineate the Skype evidence from Guede's defence at trial.

But you've pointed out the very issue which may be of value to the defence. The whole point is that in his Skype call, Guede was very vague and generic in his description of the other people present at the time of the murder. He claimed that the man with whom he fought had a "non-foreign" (i.e. Italian) accent, and that he had mid-brown hair. He also only mentions the possibility of Knox's presence only extremely peripherally, via his ludicrous suggestion that it could have been her ringing the front door bell.

Yet - as you point out - by the time of his trial, this had all morphed into a very much more detailed recollection, in which Knox and Sollecito played definitive leading parts. And that's the important thing. Why did Guede's recollection of events seemingly improve by such a remarkable degree, the further in time he got from the night of the murder?

Why didn't Guede, for example, mention in the Skype call that Sollecito had a very distinctive Apulian accent (and dialect)? Guede was a fully naturalised Italian, who would undoubtedly have been able to recognise regional accents with broad accuracy - in exactly the same way as you or I (I assume here that you're British) could easily recognise a Scottish accent, or even a Liverpool accent, with very high accuracy. And since Guede claims later on (as you point out) to have been able to pinpoint Sollecito's accent, there's no conceivable reason why he wouldn't have been able to do so by the time of his Skype call. Yet instead, he offers a bland description that the man had a "non-foreign" accent. Doesn't fly, as far as I'm concerned.

And similar arguments can be made for physical recognition of Sollecito, and the whole placing of Knox into the scene. There's simply no good reason why Guede wouldn't have mentioned all this in his Skype call, if it were all the truth. Instead, all the evidence points towards Guede shoehorning Knox and Sollecito into his invented narrative at a later date, once he was in custody and he realised that blaming the two other people arrested for the crime was easily his optimum defence.
 
CoulsdonUK,

I have looked at the bra clasp electropherogram. I would say a minimum of two people besides Meredith and Raffaele, possibly more. A better answer would require the EDFs and more expertise than I have.


And I confidently predict that Conti and Vecchiotti will address all this in their independent report.

(Just thinking of the word "independent" in regard to the DNA evidence makes me chuckle - because it makes me think of certain pro-guilt commentators' attempts to convince people that Stefanoni's boss at the Polizia Scientifica in Rome qualified as an "independent" reviewer of Stefanoni's work :D )
 
sequential unmasking

Why would I ask Italian cops you stated in your earlier post “that bra clasp shows Raffaele and quite a few other people”; I naturally assumed you would be able to provide names well apart from Raffaele’s which kind of suggests that you believe his DNA is on Meredith’s bra clasp, was that your intention?
CoulsdonUK,

You seem to be unfamiliar with the process of identifying individuals on the basis of DNA forensics, which is fine. But there is no contradiction whatsoever in saying that there are other contributors to the clasp and not knowing who they are. The former is deduced from finding peaks in one or more loci in the electropherogram that do not correspond with the alleles that belong to Meredith or Raffaele. The latter requires reference profiles for the individuals whom one identifies.

However, there are two important caveats with respect to the analysis of mixtures. One is that the reference profiles should not be seen by the analysts before they do their analysis (a preferred process is called sequential unmasking). Two is that there are honest disagreements about the interpretation of mixtures, and two analysts might reasonably draw different conclusions. Dr. Tagliabracci's testimony is somewhat helpful in understanding this point.
 
CoulsdonUK,

I have looked at the bra clasp electropherogram. I would say a minimum of two people besides Meredith and Raffaele, possibly more. A better answer would require the EDFs and more expertise than I have.
Halides1

Thank you.

Could you refresh my memory was there any speculation as to who the other two people might have been? I understand that the EDFs weren’t made available to the defence and court appointed experts until fairly recently.
 
Ahh I see. It wasn't immediately apparent (to me, at least) that the line was there to delineate the Skype evidence from Guede's defence at trial.

But you've pointed out the very issue which may be of value to the defence. The whole point is that in his Skype call, Guede was very vague and generic in his description of the other people present at the time of the murder. He claimed that the man with whom he fought had a "non-foreign" (i.e. Italian) accent, and that he had mid-brown hair. He also only mentions the possibility of Knox's presence only extremely peripherally, via his ludicrous suggestion that it could have been her ringing the front door bell.

Yet - as you point out - by the time of his trial, this had all morphed into a very much more detailed recollection, in which Knox and Sollecito played definitive leading parts. And that's the important thing. Why did Guede's recollection of events seemingly improve by such a remarkable degree, the further in time he got from the night of the murder?

Why didn't Guede, for example, mention in the Skype call that Sollecito had a very distinctive Apulian accent (and dialect)? Guede was a fully naturalised Italian, who would undoubtedly have been able to recognise regional accents with broad accuracy - in exactly the same way as you or I (I assume here that you're British) could easily recognise a Scottish accent, or even a Liverpool accent, with very high accuracy. And since Guede claims later on (as you point out) to have been able to pinpoint Sollecito's accent, there's no conceivable reason why he wouldn't have been able to do so by the time of his Skype call. Yet instead, he offers a bland description that the man had a "non-foreign" accent. Doesn't fly, as far as I'm concerned.

And similar arguments can be made for physical recognition of Sollecito, and the whole placing of Knox into the scene. There's simply no good reason why Guede wouldn't have mentioned all this in his Skype call, if it were all the truth. Instead, all the evidence points towards Guede shoehorning Knox and Sollecito into his invented narrative at a later date, once he was in custody and he realised that blaming the two other people arrested for the crime was easily his optimum defence.


Perhaps it doesn't 'fly' as far as you are concerned, but have you contrasted:

The duration of the Skype call

with

The amount of time Guede was interograted for between being arrested and the publication of the Micheli Report.

You would expect far more detail in the latter?
 
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