Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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LondonJohn said:
All this could be easily sorted out over the next week or two, in time for everything to be completed by the end of July.
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Yes, it could be, but it won't. Instead yet another embarassing fiasco. Bribery for money for sex change surgery! This is a disgrace to the little dignity this court still has left. These criminals who have testified have done nothing to advance either the prosecution or the defense. They have done nothing but take up time the court could have used to consider the more important aspects of the appeal - like the computer.
 
halides1 said:
Kevinfay,

I communicated with an observer of the trial, and she/he thinks that there are other errors in this article as well.
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Does this Tony guy perhaps employ the same translator who was responsible for the I-suppose-Raffaele-could-have-snuck-out-with-the-knife thing?
 
Kevinfay said:
I listened to the video 5 or 6 times, rechecking what I had written down.

While LondonJohn is calling Sky, can you point me to the Italian version ... you can't hear the Italian over the translation.
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Sheeeeeesh, is it really that hard to comprehend?

You're listening to an English "translation". You have accurately transcribed the "translation". As you say, on the Sky News piece it's impossible to hear (or even see) the original Italian spoken by Knox, let alone put it into the correct context.

But the accurate transcription of the English "translation" is not the issue here. It's whether the translation itself is in any way accurate. And it's not.

You've already been directed to clear video/audio of the actual statement from Knox, without the voice of the "translation" obscuring it. It's here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSHrTbD0xis

Knox's statement starts at 5:00 in. Listen, comprehend, and realise that you are wrong. Then we can move on.
 
Never Trust Voiceovers...or Sky News

The mistranslation by the Sky News voiceover would be hilarious if the stakes weren't so high and the consequences so dire. It speaks for itself:

Every time Rudy Guede, Raffael, and myself have come together, it's always in the same space, the same courtroom. We have no means of contacting each other. He knows we weren't there. He knows we all got drunk that night. But I don't know what happened to him that evening. I just don't know what we did, other than go out that evening. I am after the truth.
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As you will have gathered by now, this is completely fabricated. Totally made-up. Here is what Amanda actually said:

I want to state simply to the Court that the only times that Rudy Guede, Raffaele, and I have gotten together in the same place have been in a courtroom. We don't have any means of contact and...I'm shocked and distressed by these statements, really, because....He knows that we weren't there. He knows that we weren't involved and...I don't know what happened that night...I'm sorry that I can't even say to him "look...the way mistakes get fixed is by telling the truth"...and....so....this [is what I wanted to say], thank you.
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Didn't I say something earlier about the appalling laziness of journalists covering this case? It's even worse than I thought: don't bother to get a proper translation, just make stuff up based on your superficial impressions of what the case is about. Unbelievable.
 
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halides1 said:
Kevinfay,

I communicated with an observer of the trial, and she/he thinks that there are other errors in this article as well.
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It would take some almighty error in translation ?

How could you get to:

'He knows we all got drunk that night'

and

'I just don't know what we did, other than go out that evening'

Is Nick Pisa on Twitter, linkedin, facebook or something?. Maybe he can clear it up.

Just thought, I can ask for an introduction to NP next time I'm in Rome ... Sky Italia is really quite small, tony took me around the studios ... and got me into help do interviews at the Brit Awards, and other events.

Anyway, for the moment, we can wait for LondonJohn to confirm his doubts with the Sky Corporation?
 
Anybody wish to fill me in on what I've missed here in the last 100 days while contracting long hours in another state? (I've had time only to follow the media reports.)

Today's news was potentially more exciting, but it really wasn't important was it? Guede just seemed to blow in and blow out. How long did he testify? What was the cross examination about?
 
LondonJohn said:
This means that there will be time for additional witnesses and evidence to be presented between now and the Summer recess (which will be between late July and early September). FWIW, I think that Hellmann will allow the following:

1) new evidence on Sollecito's computer logs, along with related expert testimony;

2) the recall of Quintavalle and Capezzali for additional testimony;

3) the addition of new expert testimony on ToD in relation to Meredith's
stomach/intestine contents.
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Well, next hearing July 25...
 
Kevinfay said:
It would take some almighty error in translation ?

How could you get to:

'He knows we all got drunk that night'

and

'I just don't know what we did, other than go out that evening'

Is Nick Pisa on Twitter, linkedin, facebook or something?. Maybe he can clear it up.

Just thought, I can ask for an introduction to NP next time I'm in Rome ... Sky Italia is really quite small, tony took me around the studios ... and got me into help do interviews at the Brit Awards, and other events.

Anyway, for the moment, we can wait for LondonJohn to confirm his doubts with the Sky Corporation?
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You still haven't listened to the original Italian then? I wonder how Tony will react when you start laying into him. I hope he takes it reasonably calmly.

PS: I'm sure Tony will chuckle at the phrase "Sky Corporation" as well. Sky News is a division of Sky Television, which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of BSkyB plc. The main shareholder in BSkyB is News International, which is a division of News Corporation.
 
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Alt+F4 said:
Yes, it could be, but it won't. Instead yet another embarassing fiasco. Bribery for money for sex change surgery! This is a disgrace to the little dignity this court still has left. These criminals who have testified have done nothing to advance either the prosecution or the defense. They have done nothing but take up time the court could have used to consider the more important aspects of the appeal - like the computer.
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I always thought that the whole point of the inmate testimony was to provide Hellmann with some route to find Knox and Sollecito innocent without treading on the toes of other courts that had previously decided that the crime was committed by Rudy plus other people. The inmates can be used to support finding that the "other" perps could be people other than Knox and Sollecito.

In this regard, the inmate testimony was successful, albeit a bit messy in execution. My guess is that the defense didn't really expect Rudy to show up, and figured that even if he did, he is known as such a liar that nothing he says will be taken too seriously.
 
PMF hated me, but at least they responded.

I feel like I'm getting the cold shoulder.

I've been away. Sorry I haven't replied for weeks.

Anybody here contribute to the defense fund?

I did.
 
bolint said:
Well, next hearing July 25...
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Next scheduled hearing July 25th. The court will convene to receive the DNA report this Thursday (June 30th). It's entirely possible that on Thursday Hellmann might announce new dates for evidence deposition and witness testimony, and he can also make such announcements at any other time. In my view, it is very unlikely that the court will not choose to reconvene at any point between June 30th and July 25th.
 
"The real murderer of this incredible story was finally caught today. He is a
22 year old Ivorian [and] they found him in Germany. I saw father happy and smiling, but I am not 100% calm at the moment because I fear that he might invent strange things."
(Raffaele Sollecito)
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At that time there were no news of shadows, voices, Benedetti skype talks, etc.
Rudy should have been a complete stranger ...
 
Justinian2 said:
PMF hated me, but at least they responded.

I feel like I'm getting the cold shoulder.

I've been away. Sorry I haven't replied for weeks.

Anybody here contribute to the defense fund?

I did.
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Welcome back, Justinian.

No, I haven't contributed to the defence fund. Personally, I have no wish to get that close to the coal face.
 
LondonJohn said:
Next scheduled hearing July 25th. The court will convene to receive the DNA report this Thursday (June 30th). It's entirely possible that on Thursday Hellmann might announce new dates for evidence deposition and witness testimony, and he can also make such announcements at any other time. In my view, it is very unlikely that the court will not choose to reconvene at any point between June 30th and July 25th.
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I'm not so sure.
They receive the DNA report and send it to the parties. No need for a hearing and, anyway, the parties need time ti study it.
Don't take the the September/October ending too seriously.
December is more likely.
 
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bolint said:
At that time there were no news of shadows, voices, Benedetti skype talks, etc.
Rudy should have been a complete stranger ...
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What makes you think that he wasn't a complete stranger to Sollecito at that time? It's not as if Sollecito wrote something like "They arrested this guy called Rudy Guede whom I remember from before the murder".

Also, many have latched onto the part where Sollecito expresses concern at what Guede might say - interpreting that as some sort of evidence that Sollecito knew that Guede was aware of Sollecito's involvement in the murder, and that Sollecito was therefore expressing fear that Guede would "spill the beans".

But I read that far more as an entirely rational concern that Sollecito knew that Guede would almost certainly have heard about Knox's/Sollecito's arrests, and was therefore concerned that Guede might seek to tell the police something along the lines of "It wasn't me: you've already arrested the real culprits!" in order to try to save his own skin.
 
Diocletus said:
In this regard, the inmate testimony was successful, albeit a bit messy in execution. My guess is that the defense didn't really expect Rudy to show up, and figured that even if he did, he is known as such a liar that nothing he says will be taken too seriously.
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It didn't come across to me that any of the convicts were telling the truth and so I don't think anything they have said will be taken too seriously.
 
bolint said:
I'm not so sure.
The receive the DNA report and send it to the parties. No need for a hearing and, anyway, the parties need time ti study it.
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I didn't say there would be a hearing. I said that the court would need to convene in order to officially receive the report. The court might only convene for 5 minutes in order to do this, but my view is that it will need to convene. And it's therefore entirely possible that Hellmann might use that opportunity to announce additional witnesses or evidence.

And I agree that all parties need time to study the DNA report. But four weeks seems like more than ample time to do so, and I believe that additional witness hearings and evidence deposition could easily be fitted into those four weeks. We'll soon see though - I might be totally wide of the mark.
 
bolint said:
I'm not so sure.
They receive the DNA report and send it to the parties. No need for a hearing and, anyway, the parties need time ti study it.
Don't take the the September/October ending too seriously.
December is more likely.
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I agree. The reason for so few witnesses over the summer was that there were too many scheduling conflicts (lots of vacations and weddings).
 
Diocletus said:
I always thought that the whole point of the inmate testimony was to provide Hellmann with some route to find Knox and Sollecito innocent without treading on the toes of other courts that had previously decided that the crime was committed by Rudy plus other people. The inmates can be used to support finding that the "other" perps could be people other than Knox and Sollecito.

In this regard, the inmate testimony was successful, albeit a bit messy in execution. My guess is that the defense didn't really expect Rudy to show up, and figured that even if he did, he is known as such a liar that nothing he says will be taken too seriously.
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My view is that Hellmann actually had little choice but to allow the testimony of the inmates - the terms of Italian law mean that he has an obligation to investigate all possible areas that have a possibility of impacting upon the case. This is a vestige of the inquisitorial approach of the Italian justice system: the courts have an obligation to leave no reasonable stone unturned in its search for the truth.

This was at the very core of the defence arguments about these witnesses: it wasn't that the defence necessarily thought that either of the groups of inmates was telling the truth, it was that the court has an obligation to hear them, to find out if they are telling the truth. The defence teams argued that Massei essentially abdicated his responsibilities when he arbitrarily refused to hear these witnesses. And, as a point of record, these witnesses were called by the court - not by the defence. The defence merely argued that the court should call them.
 
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