Which God or Gods do you believe in and why not the other ones?

[Ron_Tomkins]

I asked my wife about this once, but she's one of those honest theists so her answer was something like "I believe it because of my parents and how I was brought up. If I was born in India Id be a hindu". She openly admits that her religiosity is a direct result of indoctrination and that she has no logical reason for her beliefs.... but her beliefs are relatively harmless so it doesnt bother her and she feels no compulsion to question any of it.

If only more theists were like her.
Honest theists do exist, but they are, without a doubt, in the minority.

 

[Marduk]

1) Which God or Gods (And name each one of them) do you believe in and why?

I believe in all Gods as a pantheist thats de rigeur, however I view them all as a human way of interacting with the divine. Some people call the divine, spirit, some call it nature, the name and form isn't really as important as the belief. It humbles and I am a better person for it, my patron, the form I use for my concentrations is Bel Marduk, as he was the only God I ever came across that didn't rule by fear or regard this planet as a kind of giant chess game for his own amusement. All gods were created by man, Edward Chiera excavating at Dur-Sharrukin famously said "God created man in his image, and we immediately returned the favour", then he died (the assyriologist, not God), tragic story


Worshipping one God and claiming all the others false is not even a question, if someone believes in a divine power then that divine power in some form exists, even if its just the belief that exists. That belief shared by many draws people together and makes them warm when they would be scared, I have no issue with that. Its what I perceive as evil, that I do have a problem with, generally, thats reserved for monotheists who use their faith to seperate humanity rather than unite it, or who use their belief as a background to being wilfully ignorant of science. If you had asked "which God do I believe exists" I would be unable to answer, no god can be said to really exist, the belief in them does

2) Which God or Gods do you not believe in and why?

N/A
I would rather ask a question of you atheists, who do you look up to/greatly respect/follow the exploits of and why ?

 

[Pup]

N/A
I would rather ask a question of you atheists, who do you look up to/greatly respect/follow the exploits of and why ?

Despite your apparently sticking your tongue out at me while asking, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and give a serious answer:

I don't look up to/greatly respect/follow any particular human being, because every one is flawed in some way and it's impossible to separate the flaws from the good parts. Thus, if you respect a person as a whole, it means you respect the fact that they're a drug addict, beat their wife, whatever, in addition to the fact that they're a great musician, negotiator, whatever. That doesn't make sense.

So at most, I admire particular specific attributes of others, but no other person as a whole. When it comes to following others, my goal is to take a little of the good parts I see from many others and try to apply them to my own life, while trying to leave out the flaws. Obviously, when striving for an ideal, one can only barely make progress, never fully accomplish it.

I can see how religions might take all those separate attributes and consolidate them into a fictional perfect person/god who is, by definition, good, but that step never seemed necessary to me, because as soon as one does it, weird cultural biases and practicalities arise, and you're then locked into others' definition of what's admirable, rather than seeking your own.

 

[Aepervius]

I like the ones that are women...

I like the godess too, and aprticularly the one about pleasure or beauty.

 

[Jake Dale]

If only more theists were like her.
Honest theists do exist, but they are, without a doubt, in the minority.

looks like you had your answers already.

by the way, why do you care to know?

 

[Aepervius]

I think our cat believes in Bast, but he's reluctant to discuss his beliefs.

I strongly suspect my cats to be believers too, I can't put my finger on it, but there are some hints....

 

[sadhatter]

You know this trend is not soley the domain of the religious, believers of all stripes, love to talk at length about their favorite fantasy. Tell you all of the beautiful intracacies of it, the trivia surrounding it, its rich history, their personal twists on it, their personal experiences, among reams of other minutia.

Yet you ask a real question, a hard question, and suddenly they are silent.

Theists, does this not tell you something? If i asked you " Tell me your personal views on your religion of choice." the thread would be flooded with stories about personal revelation, how one came to realize **insert chunk of a holy book here** is the most important bit, etc. I could keep the thread going for days by simply feeding this , and saying " go on, this is interesting.". But when it comes to a hard question, suddenly you clam up.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

I believe in all Gods as a pantheist thats de rigeur, however I view them all as a human way of interacting with the divine. Some people call the divine, spirit, some call it nature, the name and form isn't really as important as the belief. It humbles and I am a better person for it, my patron, the form I use for my concentrations is Bel Marduk, as he was the only God I ever came across that didn't rule by fear or regard this planet as a kind of giant chess game for his own amusement. All gods were created by man, Edward Chiera excavating at Dur-Sharrukin famously said "God created man in his image, and we immediately returned the favour", then he died (the assyriologist, not God), tragic story


Worshipping one God and claiming all the others false is not even a question, if someone believes in a divine power then that divine power in some form exists, even if its just the belief that exists. That belief shared by many draws people together and makes them warm when they would be scared, I have no issue with that. Its what I perceive as evil, that I do have a problem with, generally, thats reserved for monotheists who use their faith to seperate humanity rather than unite it, or who use their belief as a background to being wilfully ignorant of science. If you had asked "which God do I believe exists" I would be unable to answer, no god can be said to really exist, the belief in them does

So... you believe in all Gods but at the same time in none in particular?

N/A
I would rather ask a question of you atheists, who do you look up to/greatly respect/follow the exploits of and why ?

I look up to and respect many people: My parents, my friends, people around the world who do great and beautiful things like Frank Zappa, Andy Kauffman, Richard Feynman, Jon Stewart, Carl Sagan, Evelyn Glennie, James Burke.... but I think everyone, theists and atheists, has known people they respect and/or look up to. That doesn't necessarily mean you worship them, which I don't, but even if I did, worshipping someone doesn't follow that you believe they are the creators of the Universe. So your question needs to be reformulated, since asking me if there's anyone I look up to is irrelevant to the topic we're discussing.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

looks like you had your answers already.

I had two answers so far. I'm interested in hearing different answers from different theists. The more the better.

by the way, why do you care to know?

Why do you care why I care to know?

 

[JoeMorgue]

I touched on this topic in a thread I started about subjectivity versus objectivity, specifically in religious discussions and I'd like to propose a possible angle to view this topic in.

I've been an atheist my entire life and the lack of the vast majority of theist to put forth any logical answer to the question of why they believe in their specific God or in their specific belief system is troublesome, and as time passes I've noticed more and more people using the "Subjective" cop-out. This is usually phrased in a way such as "So and So belief is the right belief... for me."

A large potion of the religious populations, or at least the religious population that I've interacted with, seems to have talked themselves into this mindset; that Bob can be Christian, Ted can be Jewish, Harry can be Hindu, Tim can be a Buddhist, etc and somehow they can all be right.

I've always had a hard time grasping this concept but it is one I've come across with annoying regularity.

 

[Marduk]

So... you believe in all Gods but at the same time in none in particular?
.

yup, its like, God doesn't wear sandals, so as soon as you see a depiction of a god with sandals, you know that humanity has clothed him and chosen his appearance.

But that doesn't change the fact, that most people do better when they are united by something that exists outside of everyday reality, because things that exist outside of reality can't be damaged by it, (its that wilfull logical disconnect that's so common to theists of every order.)

It means that you never really feel alone....

But to come back to your point, pantheists believe in the power of God, the "divine" rather than the fictional character wielding it. So from my perspective I can see all theists trying to get close to that power, maybe they're allowing themselves to be directed by others in which particular way to approach it, but, theyre still at the end of the day essentially wanting the same thing, peace.

Its just ironic that most sacred texts seem to support that you can only really have peace, after you win a long and bloody war. Isn't it ?

 

[dafydd]

Have you any idea how many gods have actualy been proposed over the centuries?

That is the point of the thread.

 

[dafydd]

You know this trend is not soley the domain of the religious, believers of all stripes, love to talk at length about their favorite fantasy. Tell you all of the beautiful intracacies of it, the trivia surrounding it, its rich history, their personal twists on it, their personal experiences, among reams of other minutia.

Yet you ask a real question, a hard question, and suddenly they are silent.

Theists, does this not tell you something? If i asked you " Tell me your personal views on your religion of choice." the thread would be flooded with stories about personal revelation, how one came to realize **insert chunk of a holy book here** is the most important bit, etc. I could keep the thread going for days by simply feeding this , and saying " go on, this is interesting.". But when it comes to a hard question, suddenly you clam up.

We would have gotten the usual campfire stories and preaching. The OP was worded well. The theists would actually have to say something for a change,that is why they are not here.

 

[Monstrmac1]

Dishwalla.

=The theists would actually have to say something for a change,that is why they are not here.

Theists say things all the time, but usually only to other theists. I'm gonna pull a "Dishwalla" and give you all my thoughts on god.

I think its possible there is/was a god. The laws of physics break down mathematically at the beginning of the universe. That fact will most likely never change. This means the possibility of a god will always exist. Even if we gain a complete universal theory of physics that possibility will be there. I've heard some proponents of M theory claim that the "big bang" could have been caused by the collision of two universal membranes. If a theory like this was ever proven it would still only create more questions.

If scientists get to a point where every equation in the universe has been solved, it will still leave the question of why there is an existence at all. The universe isn't necessary. Life isn't necessary. There could be nothing, but there is something. That is why atheism will never be universally accepted.

Here's what I don't accept. I don't believe there is a god who is actively involved in any aspect of the universe. I don't believe there is a god who has been active since the big bang.

I don't know if there was a god before that, but since he/she doesn't currently have any effect on life, I don't care.

The undeniable truth is that there are laws of physics that dictate everything that has happened in the universe from the big bang until the present. While there still may be unexplained things happening in the universe, I don't believe there are unexplainable things happening in the universe.

I consider myself an atheist. I make all my decisions in that frame of mind. I believe injecting religion into society has nothing but bad repercussions. Making important decisions for your family based on faith is a recipe for disaster.

I'll stop here because you've probably all given up reading this by now. If we ever want to take this further I'd love to delve into the topic of the soul, or the afterlife.

 

[Monstrmac1]

I liked what I just wrote so I'm going to post it on my blog. But you guys have read it first lol.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

But that doesn't change the fact, that most people do better when they are united by something that exists outside of everyday reality,

I disagree. In fact, it can be quite the opposite. Belief in irrational things as well as support of belief in irrational things has allowed hatred against people of a certain race because they're considered inferior (or because God says they're evil), people of a certain color, sexual orientation... it has led to witch hunting, etc. etc etc. It has led to all kinds of irrational behavior because God said it's okay.

Once you take the step of accepting a premise that has absolutely no evidence to back it up, based entirely on your emotional appeal to such premise, there's plenty of room for mayhem. And history is irrefutable proof of this.

It isn't always going to be like this, but this is a huge risk that comes with belief in things without evidence.

It means that you never really feel alone....

There are many other ways to not feel alone that don't require belief in a deity.

 

[Marduk]

There are many other ways to not feel alone that don't require belief in a deity.

yes, but they all cost money

 

[RossFW]

But that doesn't change the fact, that most people do better when they are united by something that exists outside of everyday reality, because things that exist outside of reality can't be damaged by it, (its that wilfull logical disconnect that's so common to theists of every order.)

I think you missed the point of the OP.

I think the question was why do you believe you particular take on God is TRUE. Your position seems to be your belief is NICE, and you don't seem to mind if it's the truth or not.

That's fine, but do you understand why many people are dissatisfied by believing in things that are either out and out made up, or just some vauge reference to "Nature"?

 

[Marduk]

I think you missed the point of the OP.

And I think you missed my earlier post (22) where I answered it in full
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7315944&postcount=22

That's fine, but do you understand why many people are dissatisfied by believing in things that are either out and out made up, or just some vauge reference to "Nature"?

sure I understand that, but the reverse is truer, that more people are satisfied by believing in things that are either out and out made up, or just some vauge reference to "Nature".
I'm one of them, I am not a theist because I believe in the existence of a god or gods, but because I believe that believing in god or gods in my case makes me a better person.
I get atheism, I'm not opposed to it in any way, I don't post here because I want to confront atheists but because on pretty much every question but this one we are in agreement, organised religion is baaad. no problems with that, people being allowed to choose for themselves is good.
So why are you so opposed to me being allowed my own opinion ?

 

[sadhatter]

We would have gotten the usual campfire stories and preaching. The OP was worded well. The theists would actually have to say something for a change,that is why they are not here.

And the thing is, i could understand if it was a trick question or something, but it is a very simple direct question, albeit with the addendum of " Don't just come in here and preach, actually answer the question." , which to be honest is kinda sad that we have to put it. Why is it the religious are always willing to discuss anything, but the hard questions?