Merged DDWFTTW in a “Real” Wind

[CORed]

Wow!

Think of how much money that would equate to if he actually did real work with all of that time!

Well, that assumes that he has any skills that somebody would pay for. Available evidence suggests that this is not the case.

 

[humber]

That's right. It should be noted, that the 60N force, measured for one particular treadmill, was the force between the treadmill and the floor, due to vibration of the treadmill, mostly from an unbalanced flywheel.
For the particular study in the cited document, it was important to measure this because they were using instruments between the treadmill and the floor to measure forces exerted by people walking or running on the treadmill.

And the motor is not above the load line of the platform.

Note that this technique would not work in the humberverse due to the stacked scale effect. Our two deniers, grasping at straws, and demonstrating their usual complete lack of understanding of just about everything, latched onto this as being some kind of evidence that the treadmill tests of ddwfttw carts were invalid. Apparently, they think the vibrations are somehow making the cart move against the treadmill belt (humber and ppg have proposed many impossible mechanisms to try to explain away the working of the ddwfttw cart that they think is impossible).

But you think you are in a position to wish away the forces that the authors say are there. Filtering only affects to measurements, not what happens on the TM. There are 80N forces measured, not 60N.

In other words, we are now about 4 pages deep into discussing an irrelevant red herring. It is much like humber's repeated harping about 100 degree windshifts that happened at times other than in the record run (or any test run).

The 100 degree changes that are definitely there, and recorded by NALSA.
Not only that, but cravenly measured at hub height when it is known that the prop extends 2.5m above that, and this is the wind at ground level.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/3316/3qq.mp4

 

[humber]

Well yes. You could use a propeller. Or you could put a battery and an electric motor in the cart to keep it running against the belt. But you can't do it without a power source, or something that interacts with the air (like a propeller) or the floor (like a wheel).

Wrong, and it still means that a force of .05N has been applied.

ETA: Yes, I know humber, one of these days, you're going to show the world your magic cart, and make fools of us all. In the mean time, you're going to continue to make a fool of yourself.

There will never be a propless treadmill cart.
There will never be a report that refutes the NALSA record.

Panic. Blind panic at what lies in store. You will not be the first to see the video. Why should I do that? No, by the time you see it, it will be have done the rounds. Maybe it is.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again, I will. Perhaps it's a matter of opportunity, and my level of immediate interest. I am not all that interested in converting you.

But, Spork has made a video of the cart without a prop, and what do you know, the calculated forces are exactly what I predicted.

If the TM were to represent a cart in the wind, then 10mph could be achieved with a force of 0.05N. Not at all possible, so the TM is wrong.
It's a repeated mistake. That happens when ideas are copied, and there is only one source - Bauer, and his papers are not correct.

It seems the TM works only in one dimension, so can't be a transform of a cart on an incline. The question is why do you even think a demonstration from me is at all necessary?
You would need to think Voodoo is at work to explain away the obvious facts, and to hold on to what is clearly a belief.

humber, wrong. You still are totally in the dark about Galilean Transformations and force.

The force of .05 N is the net force on the cart when it is going at the speed of the wind. If a cart still has a positive force on it when it is going at the speed of the wind it will accelerate to a speed faster than the wind. The treadmill wins again.

And the treadmill even wins when it is at an angle. It takes less power to run when an object is at an angle on it. How much less power? As much power as it would take to lift the cart straight up the elevation it would gain as represented by its run on the treadmill.

 

[CORed]

And the motor is not above the load line of the platform.

I have no idea why you think this is of any significance. I suppose you think you made a point here, but you didn't.

But you think you are in a position to wish away the forces that the authors say are there. Filtering only affects to measurements, not what happens on the TM. There are 80N forces measured, not 60N.

And you seem to think that the forces between the rigid frame of the treadmill, and the rigid floor, generated by internal vibrations of the treadmill, are somehow indicative of the forces between the flexible belt and whatever is on top of the treadmill, or that such forces measured for one particular treadmill are indicative of the forces exerted by a completely different treadmill. This is beyond clueless.

The 100 degree changes that are definitely there, and recorded by NALSA.

And the wind was almost certainly blowing 180 degrees off sometime in the month before or the month after the trial, which is just as relevant (i.e, not the least bit)

Not only that, but cravenly measured at hub height when it is known that the prop extends 2.5m above that, and this is the wind at ground level.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/3316/3qq.mp4

Wow. The wind was cravenly measured at hub height. I could accept it being measured there, but not if it was done cravenly.

I'm sure this has never occurred to you before, but the prop also extends 2.5m below the hub, so the bottom half of the prop would presumably be getting wind of lower velocity than the hub, so hub height is a perfectly reasonable place to measure it. Besides, the idea that the wind gradient was strong enough to account for 2.8 x windspeed is just plain silly.

 

[CORed]

Wrong, and it still means that a force of .05N has been applied.



Panic. Blind panic at what lies in store. You will not be the first to see the video. Why should I do that? No, by the time you see it, it will be have done the rounds. Maybe it is.

Laughter. Hysterical laughter at the idea that you think I take you the least bit seriously, and at the idea that you will ever do anything other than make a fool of yourself on internet forums.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And why humber used that link in his last post is beyond me. Maybe he thinks the fact that spork's shadow was over ten feet long indicates they cheated by using giants.

The fact that humber objects to the wind being measured at the elevation of the hub shows he knows nothing of velocity gradients too.

 

[temporalillusion]

ReportWatch Day 42: The report has been delayed because it's being written by the vibrations of a treadmill.

 

[humber]

Laughter. Hysterical laughter at the idea that you think I take you the least bit seriously, and at the idea that you will ever do anything other than make a fool of yourself on internet forums.

You are panicking.

 

[humber]

And why humber used that link in his last post is beyond me. Maybe he thinks the fact that spork's shadow was over ten feet long indicates they cheated by using giants.

The fact that humber objects to the wind being measured at the elevation of the hub shows he knows nothing of velocity gradients too.

Really? The flapping trousers don't tell of gusty winds? Beaufort 4 at least.
Not only that, but 100 degree directions changes and 10mph gusts have been recorded. To make a claim for ddw under those conditions, is quite obviously dishonest.

The wind above the hub will be faster, and that is why is was deliberately not recorded, and so more dishonesty.
The cart and the TM are both cheap tricks.
Stolen but false claims from the past, mendaciously repackaged for the internet.

 

[CORed]

You are panicking.

Aw! If it makes you feel better to believe that, you just go right ahead believe it.

 

[CORed]

Really? The flapping trousers don't tell of gusty winds? Beaufort 4 at least.
Not only that, but 100 degree directions changes and 10mph gusts have been recorded. To make a claim for ddw under those conditions, is quite obviously dishonest.

The wind above the hub will be faster, and that is why is was deliberately not recorded, and so more dishonesty.
The cart and the TM are both cheap tricks.
Stolen but false claims from the past, mendaciously repackaged for the internet.

Have you sold your idea for the flapping trousers anemometer to the National Weather service? Better patent it before spork steals it. I never realized you could make such accurate measurements that way. All I could really tell from it is that the wind is blowing, which I would think would be a prerequisite for a ddwfttw trial.

 

[humber]

I have no idea why you think this is of any significance. I suppose you think you made a point here, but you didn't.

And you seem to think that the forces between the rigid frame of the treadmill, and the rigid floor, generated by internal vibrations of the treadmill, are somehow indicative of the forces between the flexible belt and whatever is on top of the treadmill, or that such forces measured for one particular treadmill are indicative of the forces exerted by a completely different treadmill. This is beyond clueless.

And you are now a load platform expert? Did you give yourself a hat?

And the wind was almost certainly blowing 180 degrees off sometime in the month before or the month after the trial, which is just as relevant (i.e, not the least bit)

100 degree changes, measured by NALSA at the time of the trial.
They are not only large changes, but exceptionally large.

I'm sure this has never occurred to you before, but the prop also extends 2.5m below the hub, so the bottom half of the prop would presumably be getting wind of lower velocity than the hub, so hub height is a perfectly reasonable place to measure it. Besides, the idea that the wind gradient was strong enough to account for 2.8 x windspeed is just plain silly.

1) Where do you think they measure the wind for a sail?
2) The cart did not go 2.8WS, but 1.8WS. Only because the wind speed fell for 8 seconds, was that last claim made. A totally craven claim.
I look forward to seeing you try to talk your way out of the propless cart, that beats the pants of Spork's.

 

[CORed]

ReportWatch Day 42: The report has been delayed because it's being written by the vibrations of a treadmill.

It will probably make more sense if written by the vibrations of a treadmill than it will if it is written by humber.

 

[humber]

Have you sold your idea for the flapping trousers anemometer to the National Weather service? Better patent it before spork steals it. I never realized you could make such accurate measurements that way. All I could really tell from it is that the wind is blowing, which I would think would be a prerequisite for a ddwfttw trial.

"Fascinating, Captain. A species capable of nothing but bluster"

 

[Subduction Zone]

So now humber admits that the cart was going directly downwind faster than the wind, only it wasn't going directly downwind and the wind since the wind was going in the other direction last Tuesday. And since there was a tornado with hundred miles per hour winds somewhere on the Earth within the last year it was only going a quarter of the speed of the wind at best anyway.

 

[CORed]

I look forward to seeing you try to talk your way out of the propless cart, that beats the pants of Spork's.

Shouldn't be too hard, because it looks to me like the "pants of spork" aren't going anywhere, just flapping in the breeze in the video you posted (assuming that's the shadow of spork's pants we're looking at, not somebody else's).

 

[Subduction Zone]

Shouldn't be too hard, because it looks to me like the "pants of spork" aren't going anywhere, just flapping in the breeze in the video you posted (assuming that's the shadow of spork's pants we're looking at, not somebody else's).

Are you implying that spork cravenly used teh wind to power the Blackbird, how dastardly!

 

[CORed]

Tweaking is called "guessing" in your case, until you emulated Bauer.
Then your are doubly-screwed. It works with or without vibration. Take your cart, and add a bit of blue-tack to the prop to unbalance it. See what happens.

The cart shakes? Tips over? Doesn't work?

What point do you imagine would be proved by this silly experiment?

 

[CORed]

Are you implying that spork cravenly used teh wind to power the Blackbird, how dastardly!

Well, now that I think about it, I'm not sure humber could make a cart that can beat spork's pants, even though spork's pants aren't moving.