Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[komponisto]

Out of curiousity, since there are a couple of Italian speakers here. How easy is it to mix up tenses? I know that when people learn English, that they often have issues with the past, present, and future tenses, in fact a lot of native speakers have issues with getting them right.

What are the differences between "I have called" (Past Tense) and "I will call" (Future Tense) in Italian? Could this also explain the issue with Filomena thinking that Knox said that she was going to Rafaelle's when she was actually already there?

One would be unlikely to mix up "I have called" (ho chiamato) with "I will call" (chiamerò), it seems to me. More plausible would be a misunderstanding involving the present tense (chiamo), which can be used to indicate the near future ("I'm going to call").

But my understanding is that Knox was at an early stage in her Italian studies at the time (recall the issues with the police), and that she mainly spoke English with her roommates and Raffaele, certainly regarding matters of any complexity or importance.

 

[Fine]

I read stuff like this, a very common 'observation' on that site and I can't help but shake my head:

"Yesterday I posted on TJMk about the group blog “Ground Report” which seems to have stupidly lashed itself to the hairbrained rants and libels of “Bruce Fisher” to keep itself alive.

Its reader numbers have tanked ever since."
Delusional.

_________________________

Kaosium,

And this from Peter Quennell a couple days ago:


"Readership of PMF and TJMK have been creeping up and up and both have been in the top 100,000 most read in the world of 50 million websites.
The conspiracy sites have never remotely equaled that.On TJMk in the recent period maybe 1000 a day are new readers and their initial stay there is a long one. Surely it is the same on PMF."


Errm,... according to HypeStat, the principal "conspiracy site"--Bruce Fisher's site---receives more unique daily visitors than either PMF or TJMF. And TJMK---Peter's site---don't get "maybe 1000 a day new readers." His TOTAL unique readers per day---new and repeat---is about 156. See: Independent Statistics

PMF = Perugiamurderfile.org
TJMK = Truejustice.org
Bruce's site = Injusticeinperugia.org

///

 

[Draca]

Anther one for 'one of the most respected forensic experts in the whole wide world.'

Rolling Stone interview: The Never Ending Nightmare of Amanda Knox, by Nathaniel Rich

"When I ask Mignini whether he regrets any decisions he made during the Kercher case, he will name only one. It was the very first decision that he made. When he arrived at the crime scene he asked the chief forensics expert, Patrizia Stefanoni, whether she had taken Kercher's body temperature, a reliable indicator of time of death. Stefanoni, Mignini says, was worried that doing so might contaminate the body and advised that they wait until other testing had been done. The temperature was not taken until November 3rd."

Arghh. It is just maddening that anything this woman has touched should be used to convict people! She clearly is incompetent.

 

[Kaosium]

Anther one for 'one of the most respected forensic experts in the whole wide world.'

Rolling Stone interview: The Never Ending Nightmare of Amanda Knox, by Nathaniel Rich

"When I ask Mignini whether he regrets any decisions he made during the Kercher case, he will name only one. It was the very first decision that he made. When he arrived at the crime scene he asked the chief forensics expert, Patrizia Stefanoni, whether she had taken Kercher's body temperature, a reliable indicator of time of death. Stefanoni, Mignini says, was worried that doing so might contaminate the body and advised that they wait until other testing had been done. The temperature was not taken until November 3rd."

Arghh. It is just maddening that anything this woman has touched should be used to convict people! She clearly is incompetent.

What is her job anyway? I know she helped identify disaster victims, and did labwork to exonerate someone else as per Frank's blog, but I'm having trouble fitting her presence at the murder scene in with a scientist. She's obviously not a forensics expert, nor does she have any idea of the necessities of pathology...so what is she actually supposed to be doing for the Polizia Scientifica?

 

[Draca]

What is her job anyway? I know she helped identify disaster victims, and did labwork to exonerate someone else as per Frank's blog, but I'm having trouble fitting her presence at the murder scene in with a scientist. She's obviously not a forensics expert, nor does she have any idea of the necessities of pathology...so what is she actually supposed to be doing for the Polizia Scientifica?

Maybe we should ask what is NOT her job based on what she didn't do.

It was not her job:
To take the body temperature.
To collect Meredith Kercher's clothing
To collect the Purse with blood near the zipper
To collect the rock
To do a confirming blood test in the lab on the luminol prints
To collect footprints from all the roommates
To test the inside of the knife


On the other hand, her job includes:
Gift wrapping a mop
Creating new forensic testing techniques while in the moment
Explaining to Judge Hellmann why she shouldn't need to turn over requested documents.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Concealing negative blood tests from the court?

 

[lionking]

Concealing negative blood tests from the court?

No, just another member of the conspiracy.

 

[Draca]

Concealing negative blood tests from the court?

Of course. It is part of her job to make sure the guilty are convicted, what difference is a negative TMB test when they know the prints are made from blood.

 

[RWVBWL]

Greetings,
Friday night and I am watching the video clip and the rest of the program that Rhea linked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q5-SN9dJ6s&NR=1
According to Maria Del Prato, when Rudy Guede was busted being inside the nursery school, he had some stolen keys on him, among other items.

Does you know anything these stolen keys? Were they even reported stolen? Whom did they belong to? Was it related to another burglary, possibly the lawyers office?

I'm asking this since Meredith Kercher's keys, and also the key that Giacomo gave to Meredith to water his pot plants, have never been found. I believe that Raffaele and Amanda are innocent of any involvement in Miss Kercher's bloody murder. If Rudy Guede was the sole perp in Miss Kerchers death, he possibly, and most probably did discard her stolen keys somewhere, which he did not do with the keys that he was busted with at the nursery school. Lesson learned.

Anyways, back to the show...

 

[Chris C]

No, just another member of the conspiracy.

Sorry dont understand what your trying to say here. Are you denying that Stefanoni hid the results of the TMB tests? I mean usually when you have trial you hand over the results. Im pretty sure getting a negative result when using TMB is something that should have been handed over to the defense. TMB was good enough for the knife. The prosecution had to use the excuse the knife was cleaned with bleach to explain the negative result when using TMB on the knife. Dont you find it odd that all that TMB use and no positive results. Why use TMB if all you get is negative results and then have to hide them.

 

[lionking]

Sorry dont understand what your trying to say here.

I'm saying she has to be part of the conspiracy necessary for the innocentisti narrative to make sense.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I'm saying she has to be part of the conspiracy necessary for the innocentisti narrative to make sense.

I posted this when you were making these claims last time, and you vanished rather then respond, so I'll post it again and see if you can do better than just make up unsubstantiated claims and then just evade and run when questioned on them.

Why? Did it take an elephantine sized conspiracy of silence to convict Lindy Chamberlind for the murder of her daughter, and to reject her appeals? Did it take an elephantine sized conspiracy of silence to convict Arthur Allen Thomas of double homicide, twice? And in his case there really was the fact that a police officer planted evidence.

You seem to be assuming that for RS and AK to be innocent that every cop and Judge in Italy must not only know, but are being quiet about it. I think that is a crazy position to take, but even if you were to claim that every cop in the ILE knew and was keeping quiet, are you going to also claim that such a culture could never exist in a police force? Or do you really need reminding of the corruption in the Queensland Police force during the late 70's and throughout the 1980's until the Fitzgerald Inquiry exposed it in 1987. (And I'd note that some insiders are claiming that it's getting almost as bad once again, and with the Crime and Misconduct Commission investigating police in both Surfer's and Bisbane for serious criminal offences, including drug running, who knows.)

Or is it that you think that Italy is some how immune to having incompetent and/or corrupt cops like the rest of world, even those in your own backyard?

Ball is in your court Lionking.

 

[Matthew Best]

I don't see it. What is stopping her from making an independent decision to conceal the results, without conspiring with anybody?

 

[zeb]

Greetings,
Friday night and I am watching the video clip and the rest of the program that Rhea linked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q5-SN9dJ6s&NR=1
According to Maria Del Prato, when Rudy Guede was busted being inside the nursery school, he had some stolen keys on him, among other items.

Does you know anything these stolen keys? Were they even reported stolen? Whom did they belong to? Was it related to another burglary, possibly the lawyers office?

I'm asking this since Meredith Kercher's keys, and also the key that Giacomo gave to Meredith to water his pot plants, have never been found. I believe that Raffaele and Amanda are innocent of any involvement in Miss Kercher's bloody murder. If Rudy Guede was the sole perp in Miss Kerchers death, he possibly, and most probably did discard her stolen keys somewhere, which he did not do with the keys that he was busted with at the nursery school. Lesson learned.

Anyways, back to the show...

The break in at the Milan place was two weeks behind the killing of Meredith

 

[Chris C]

I'm saying she has to be part of the conspiracy necessary for the innocentisti narrative to make sense.

She did do that very thing. The tmb results were hidden. So I guess your saying she is part of a conspiracy. Glad you clarified that.

 

[Katody Matrass]

I posted this when you were making these claims last time, and you vanished rather then respond, so I'll post it again and see if you can do better than just make up unsubstantiated claims and then just evade and run when questioned on them.



Ball is in your court Lionking.

I found it. It's a PRATT

lionking: It requires a vast, sophisticated conspiracy
Q: Why? How is it different from any other wrongful convictions. Were they all huge conspiracies?
lionking: ...Crickets chirping...
..Repeat every week or two..

 

[lionking]

I posted this when you were making these claims last time, and you vanished rather then respond, so I'll post it again and see if you can do better than just make up unsubstantiated claims and then just evade and run when questioned on them.



Ball is in your court Lionking.

I didn't respond because it would have been off topic. This is not about the Chamberlain case. I don't respond to irrevelent posts (although I am responding to this, mea culpa).

 

[lionking]

I found it. It's a PRATT

lionking: It requires a vast, sophisticated conspiracy
Q: Why? How is it different from any other wrongful convictions. Were they all huge conspiracies?
lionking: ...Crickets chirping...
..Repeat every week or two..

I made my point. You don't agree with it. Big deal.

 

[Katody Matrass]

I made my point. You don't agree with it. Big deal.

You made a "point" that you're unable to defend. How many more times are you going to repeat it?

I wonder if there is a name for a tactic of "bore the opponents to death by monotonous repeating of the same nonsense". Time to check RationalWiki again

 

[PhantomWolf]

I didn't respond because it would have been off topic. This is not about the Chamberlain case. I don't respond to irrevelent posts (although I am responding to this, mea culpa).

So you're going to go with evasion, well done.

Besides, it's not off topic at all, you are claiming that the MK case can only be the result of a conspriacy. Since the only two options are malice or incompetence, then by logical deduction that would mean that either any case of injustice with as many people involved in the investigation and appeal must also have been due to a conspriacy, that the Italian Justice system is unique in the world that it contains no incompetent people, you that you can categorically been able to rule out incompetence, in which case you should be able to explain things that look very incompetent, for instance the multiple untruths of the ILE, and the shocking techinques of the Polizia Scientifica. (Taking the body temperature over a day after finding the body? Really? Wrapping up a mop handle with wrapping paper found onsite, then taking it into the murder room? Really? Swabbing large areas of the sink when getting DNA samples? Really?)

So which do you want to go for?

a) There is no such thing as Police incompetence, all injustice cases are conspriacies.
b) Italy, uniquely has no incompetent police so it has to be a conspriacy
c) The Polizia Scientifica just managed to make themselves look like the keystone cops, but really knew exactly what they are doing (it's just everyone else that has bo idea how to do things right.)
d) Something of your own creative mind.

So how about instead of just claiming you know that it had to a conspriacy if they are guilty, you put your money were your mouth is and actually prove it, or at least post a link to what you think proves it.