What does the phrase "hating our freedoms" mean?

[Nursedan]

People say the terrorists hate our freedom. People say Republicans hate our freedom. People say Democrats hate our freedom. By 'our' I don't just mean Americans by the way.

It's used as an "end all be all" argument, and I'm wondering what people really mean when they say this. This was said so often after 9/11 I think people heard it but didn't really process it.

If a law is passed restricting freedom, does it mean the person passing the law 'hates' freedom?

And when used a a justification for war, what is really being said? That jealousy is the main factor behind terrorism? That terrorists can't stand others being free while they can't be?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I think it's just an abuse of language that is counterproductive to any kind of compromise, conflict resolution, or compromise.

I really think we shouldn't attribute motivations to other people when they already offer plausible motivations.

I also think it depends on a really strange concept of human nature. As if "our" psychology works fundamentally different from the way "their" psychology works.

It helps keep things black and white. It helps to demonize "them" and to keep "us" lily white.

 

[NoahFence]

They don't hate our freedoms, they just hate us.

 

[Wowbagger]

I think it's a simple way of saying "they don't have a democracy where they can constructively convey their angst, so they feel as if they have no choice but to try to destroy our own". Or, something like that.

 

[fuelair]

Only speaking to the terrorists end of it. Usually what is meant is that , for specifically religious (i.e. stupid) reasons, the terrorists do not like that: we have pretty much full freedom of religion, our courts are (mostly) not based on some religion's rules (their's specifically), our people can't be ordered around/harmed/killed for failure to follow some anally retentive religious slimeballs, women are free to do what other people get to do, women are free to not marry or to marry whom they wish to (within confines legal and actually going to happen), nobody (mostly) here sees insults to the family as anything more than a reason to extend the middle-finger-of-righteous-impalement and possibly throw in a curse or two as they twist or thrust it symbolically at the insulter. ETC.

And they feel that this gives them the right to kill us. I, and most of our population, tend to disagree with this and believe it gives us the right to eliminate the conservatives/activists among them with extreme predjudice.

 

[Nursedan]

Only speaking to the terrorists end of it. Usually what is meant is that , for specifically religious (i.e. stupid) reasons, the terrorists do not like that: we have pretty much full freedom of religion, our courts are (mostly) not based on some religion's rules (their's specifically), our people can't be ordered around/harmed/killed for failure to follow some anally retentive religious slimeballs, women are free to do what other people get to do, women are free to not marry or to marry whom they wish to (within confines legal and actually going to happen), nobody (mostly) here sees insults to the family as anything more than a reason to extend the middle-finger-of-righteous-impalement and possibly throw in a curse or two as they twist or thrust it symbolically at the insulter. ETC.

And they feel that this gives them the right to kill us. I, and most of our population, tend to disagree with this and believe it gives us the right to eliminate the conservatives/activists among them with extreme predjudice.

I see what you mean but I'm not making the connection between this phrase and the desire to kill another person.

If they hate us for our freedoms, then why not try to convert us, rather than kill us? How does that serve them?

 

[Hoppy]

Believe this was a Bush-ism meaning that any opposition to his actions were anti- American.
I don't recollect hearing or reading it before Bush.

 

[fuelair]

I see what you mean but I'm not making the connection between this phrase and the desire to kill another person.

If they hate us for our freedoms, then why not try to convert us, rather than kill us? How does that serve them?

They kill their own over those things, why not us?

 

[MG1962]

I see what you mean but I'm not making the connection between this phrase and the desire to kill another person.

If they hate us for our freedoms, then why not try to convert us, rather than kill us? How does that serve them?

I can only recall having heard this come from the mouths of people who have a belief that the United States is the most perfect place on the planet. So for someone to hate something about the US by default has to be a positive.

The truth, as you are probably aware, the US has her share of problems and challenges. However in terms of a country there is a lot more right with the US than most places we could live

 

[Nursedan]

I can only recall having heard this come from the mouths of people who have a belief that the United States is the most perfect place on the planet. So for someone to hate something about the US by default has to be a positive.

The truth, as you are probably aware, the US has her share of problems and challenges. However in terms of a country there is a lot more right with the US than most places we could live

Nice. I remember the comedian David Cross saying ,"If the terrorists really hate us for our freedom, then the Netherlands would be frickin dust" .

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[Bikewer]

When this little catchphrase began circulating after 9/11, as the sloganeering it was, more level heads pointed out that in the case of Bin Laden and company, they hated us because of our politics.

 

[Puppycow]

They don't hate our freedoms, they just hate us.

No, they hate our freedoms too.

They hate that people are allowed to write a book like The Satanic Verses or draw a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed.

In Pakistan, the penalty for blasphemy is death. Standing up for freedom of speech is likely to get you killed.

 

[Nursedan]

No, they hate our freedoms too.

They hate that people are allowed to write a book like The Satanic Verses or draw a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed.

In Pakistan, the penalty for blasphemy is death. Standing up for freedom of speech is likely to get you killed.

Wow that article is incredible. What a primitive people.

Maybe Islam simply hates freedom, not just our freedom.

 

[Mark6]

Maybe Islam simply hates freedom, not just our freedom.

Bingo!

 

[WildCat]

If they hate us for our freedoms, then why not try to convert us, rather than kill us? How does that serve them?

Convert us or kill us, either option works for them.

Live and let live is not an option they consider. Just following in the footsteps of Mohammed, when he defeated an opposing army those captured had the choice to convert to Islam or lose their head.

 

[Rufo]

Do people use this phrase seriously? I thought it was mostly thrown around as a joke. Not because I can't see what it's meant to say, but because it's useless in it's simplicity. A fundamentalist terrorist might say "They hate our honor" and it would be just as true, and just as pointless.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Do people use this phrase seriously? I thought it was mostly thrown around as a joke.

I'm pretty sure Bush used the phrase "they hate us for our freedoms" seriously in denying the expressed motives of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda for the 9-11 attacks.

I think denying the expressed motives of an opponent is a common (and intellectually dishonest) rhetorical device. One example you might hear from the left (especially the New Agey type) is asking why your opponent is so afraid of you (when said opponent has never expressed fear).

ETA: And the more general issue I mentioned earlier--that this rhetoric presumes that "they" have a completely different kind of psychology than "us" --is also apparent on both sides of the Israel/Palestine conflict. Both sides seem to think that while "we" respond to violence with righteous and justified retaliation, "they" will probably knuckle under to violence, and since "they" won't listen to reason, violence is the only thing "they" will understand.

 

[Taarkin]

Freedom is the only thing America is or does, therefore all criticism of America is criticism of Freedom.

 

[WildCat]

Freedom is the only thing America is or does, therefore all criticism of America is criticism of Freedom.

I know, OBL's declaration of war was just chock-full of rational criticisms of the US. For example, protecting Saudi Arabia from Iraq and expelling Iraqi forces from Kuwait. And arresting the blind sheikh just because he bombed the World Trade Center in 1993!

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I know, OBL's declaration of war was just chock-full of rational criticisms of the US. For example, protecting Saudi Arabia from Iraq and expelling Iraqi forces from Kuwait. And arresting the blind sheikh just because he bombed the World Trade Center in 1993!

That OBL's rhetoric is irrational doesn't make it OK to ascribe inflammatory motivations to his actions. Two wrongs don't make a right. This thread isn't about OBL's wacky rhetoric.

ETA: And FWIW, even if OBL has really screwed up ideas, it doesn't follow that those screwed up ideas weren't indeed his motivation.