• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged Flowers for Algernon? / memory prosthesis?

BenBurch

Gatekeeper of The Left
BenBurch
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
37,538
Location
The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/17/science/17memory.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&src=ig

Scientists have designed a brain implant that restored lost memory function and strengthened recall of new information in laboratory rats — a crucial first step in the development of so-called neuroprosthetic devices to repair deficits from dementia, stroke and other brain injuries in humans.

Though still a long way from being tested in humans, the implant demonstrates for the first time that a cognitive function can be improved with a device that mimics the firing patterns of neurons. In recent years neuroscientists have developed implants that allow paralyzed people to move prosthetic limbs or a computer cursor, using their thoughts to activate the machines. In the new work, being published Friday, researchers at Wake Forest University and the University of Southern California used some of the same techniques to read neural activity. But they translated those signals internally, to improve brain function rather than to activate outside appendages.

<SNIP>
Click to expand...
 
There's hope for me yet. :)

I wonder if they implanted rats that hadn't been trained, can't find anything except the NYT and a Hindustan Times article.
 
memory prosthesis?

So I keep seeing pretty spectacular reports (mostly in the blogosphere rather than mainstream news) of Theodore Berger of the Viterbi School of Engineering at USC and his experiments with a brain memory prosthesis.

The stories report that it's a successful demonstration of memories being stored on a chip and retrieved by the brain, but the actual description (in Berger's own words) doesn't say that at all.

From what I can tell, the teach rats a skill that relies on knowing which lever it recently pressed. Then they disable its hippocampus with drugs such that it is unable to convert short term memory to long term. The rat still has both short and long term memory, but can't form new long term memories. That is, it remembers the rules of the game, and it can perform successfully if it only has to remember the recently pressed lever for 5-10 seconds.

Then he activates a chip attached to the brain with electrodes. The chip is designed to mimic the functionality of the hippocampus, and the results seem to indicate that it does. I say "seem to" because I can think of at least a couple of other possible explanations--the first one that there is simply something else about the intervention, like just electrical stimulation and not the design of the chip that is allowing the hippocampus to function despite the drugs. Or something that is specific to the drug itself.

At any rate, I don't think Berger is even claiming that memories are stored on the thing. Just that it emulates the functionality of the hippocampus in converting short term memory to long term.

If you google the topic, you'll see all the sensationalist descriptions, but here's the one from Berger:
http://viterbi.usc.edu/news/news/2011/restoring-memory-repairing.htm
 
Cavemonster said:
We've had these for a while. They're called books.
Click to expand...

That's not even remotely similar to what Berger's device does. I think you're responding only to the thread title and didn't read the OP at all.

The claim is that the chip emulates the functionality of the hippocampus that is responsible for converting short term memory to long term memory. Berger is not even claiming that the chip stores information.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
At any rate, I don't think Berger is even claiming that memories are stored on the thing. Just that it emulates the functionality of the hippocampus in converting short term memory to long term.

If you google the topic, you'll see all the sensationalist descriptions, but here's the one from Berger:
http://viterbi.usc.edu/news/news/2011/restoring-memory-repairing.htm
Click to expand...

Knowing next to nothing about the subject and having not read the link - thats still a pretty impressive breakthrough, isn't it? If it is the design of the chip, that could lead to corrective surgery for folks with short term/long term memory disorders. Or, in a more scifi view, linking one person's short term with another's long term so someone could "remember" someone else's memory (Borg), or perhaps being able to trigger someone's long term memory through a computer interface.

But, given how unreliable our memory is I'm not sure what the point would be.
 
Last edited:
I do not know if I'll understand the answer, but is the 'prosthesis' enabling pathways or is it actually serving as a conduit?
 
madurobob said:
Knowing next to nothing about the subject and having not read the link - thats still a pretty impressive breakthrough, isn't it? If it is the design of the chip, that could lead to corrective surgery for folks with short term/long term memory disorders.
Click to expand...
First, that's a big "if". I offered two possible explanations that I don't believe were controlled for in the experiment.

But let's say Berger did successfully emulate this functionality of a rat hippocampus. That's a very far cry from what you're suggesting. Berger's next step is to see if he can get the same results with a primate.



lemurien said:
I do not know if I'll understand the answer, but is the 'prosthesis' enabling pathways or is it actually serving as a conduit?
Click to expand...
That's sort of my point: how would you know what it's doing? It could be doing nothing more than providing electrical stimulation via the electrode connections to the hippocampus and have nothing to do with the intended design.

But even if that's all it is, the research could lead to figuring out what exactly it is about that stimulation that's overcoming the hippocampus disabling drugs.

At any rate, it is way cool research, but my biggest gripe is about the people overhyping it to make claims that is is storing memories on the chip. It's sort of like failing to appreciate the garden without imagining you see fairies.
 
I downloaded the whole Free Text and I will read it with great interest.
Thank you for pointing it out.
I registered as a member in iopscience.

Very, very, very cool. You are right about that!
 
Now how long will it be before IBM or Apple proceed with that memory aid thing all over again. With the data-retention laws (The Germans and the Czechs are quite worried and they both lived under oppressive regimes so they would know), the way computers can be so easily hacked, and the government's desire for aggressive surveillance, the last thing we need is a small device on us that records every single interaction, every single place we've been, everything that's been said...
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
First, that's a big "if". I offered two possible explanations that I don't believe were controlled for in the experiment.

But let's say Berger did successfully emulate this functionality of a rat hippocampus. That's a very far cry from what you're suggesting. Berger's next step is to see if he can get the same results with a primate.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, its a huge if. But, assuming it is true, I have no base of knowledge in the area to say if the mechanism in a primate's brain would necessarily be more complicated than that in a rat's brain. This would be the first step towards understanding how the mechanism works in both rat and primate brain, though. It does seem like an important breakthrough.
 
madurobob said:
Oh yeah, its a huge if. But, assuming it is true, I have no base of knowledge in the area to say if the mechanism in a primate's brain would necessarily be more complicated than that in a rat's brain. This would be the first step towards understanding how the mechanism works in both rat and primate brain, though. It does seem like an important breakthrough.
Click to expand...

Yeah--I'm rather hoping to hear from the knowledgeable neuroscientists in the forum.

For example, does the same drug that blocks this hippocampus function in rats have the same effect in primates? Neuroscience is a LOT more complicated than electrical engineering--it's certainly got a lot more chemistry involved anyway.

FWIW, I doubt that that function in a primate brain is necessarily more complicated, but I would bet that it's different.
 
JoeTheJuggler

Google

+"IBM"+"Memory-Aid" or +"IBM"+"Memory Aids"
 
Acleron said:
I wonder if they implanted rats that hadn't been trained, can't find anything except the NYT and a Hindustan Times article.
Click to expand...

Sorry--I missed the existing thread on this topic. See the link I provided (now post #3).

Basically, the rats were taught the rules of a game the winning of which depended on knowing which was the last lever pressed. Then the function of the hippocampus responsible for converting short term memory to long term was disabled by drugs. They still had short and long term memory, but couldn't create new long term memories. They remembered the rules of the game, but could only succeed if the last lever pressed was within 5 or 10 seconds.

When the chip was activated, they were able to behave as they did without the drugs disabling that function. Since the chip was designed to emulate that function of the hippocampus, the idea is that it was successful in doing what it was designed to do.
 
lemurien said:
I downloaded the whole Free Text and I will read it with great interest.
Thank you for pointing it out.
I registered as a member in iopscience.

Very, very, very cool. You are right about that!
Click to expand...
Free article** from the link in Joe's post:

A cortical neural prosthesis for restoring and enhancing memory
A primary objective in developing a neural prosthesis is to replace neural circuitry in the brain that no longer functions appropriately. Such a goal requires artificial reconstruction of neuron-to-neuron connections in a way that can be recognized by the remaining normal circuitry, and that promotes appropriate interaction. In this study, the application of a specially designed neural prosthesis using a multi-input/multi-output (MIMO) nonlinear model is demonstrated by using trains of electrical stimulation pulses to substitute for MIMO model derived ensemble firing patterns. Ensembles of CA3 and CA1 hippocampal neurons, recorded from rats performing a delayed-nonmatch-to-sample (DNMS) memory task, exhibited successful encoding of trial-specific sample lever information in the form of different spatiotemporal firing patterns. MIMO patterns, identified online and in real-time, were employed within a closed-loop behavioral paradigm. Results showed that the model was able to predict successful performance on the same trial. Also, MIMO model-derived patterns, delivered as electrical stimulation to the same electrodes, improved performance under normal testing conditions and, more importantly, were capable of recovering performance when delivered to animals with ensemble hippocampal activity compromised by pharmacologic blockade of synaptic transmission. These integrated experimental-modeling studies show for the first time that, with sufficient information about the neural coding of memories, a neural prosthesis capable of real-time diagnosis and manipulation of the encoding process can restore and even enhance cognitive, mnemonic processes.
Click to expand...

**Note it is only free for 30 days, then it won't be. This journal is very interesting, more often new content is subscription only and archives are free. Here they have the opposite policy.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom