General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[The Fool]

No, I disagree that allowing Palestinians to immigrate to a state set up for Palestinians constitutes discrimination. But since you make up your own definitions as you go along, I can see that arguing it with you is pointless.



Once again…those non-Ultra-Orthodox people of the same ethnicity don’t get the special funding, therefore it’s not based on ethnicity. Further, the “Jewish state” is apparently working to address the discrepancy, putting the lie to your claim that a proclamation of “Jewish state” somehow magically changes policy all on its own.



Ah, the old dishonest changing definitions ploy.



And yet only one of those religions has a federal holiday.

Look, deny it all you want we still have federal recognition of the religion plus a culture that supports it. All without discriminating against practitioners of different religion, unless you count making them work their holy days into a regular work schedule.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/5/usc_sec_05_00006103----000-.html

goalppost shifting and handwaving aside.....the discriminatory education funding remains and the "christian state" in the US still does not exist. Unusual that you should be confused about that seconds one...seeing as its in black and white in your own constitution

 

[Virus]

You'd better check in your good-and-evil Bible, just to make sure.

Please list all the good things the Nazis did in the Balkans.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

You'd better check in your good-and-evil Bible, just to make sure.

You are aware of what the Waffen SS did in the Balkans, right?

 

[a_unique_person]

You seem to be implying that Israel is responsible for Arab antisemitism and not things like Nazi foreign policy, Islam and Arab culture.

It's like claiming the Indians were racists when they used violent resistance against the British invaders or the aborginals hated whites when the British invaded Australia. It had nothing to do with race, but I don't doubt hatred was present.

 

[a_unique_person]

And under which caliphate was there a call for this self-determination you constantly speak of?

Are you seriously claiming Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular wanted to be ruled by a genocidal imperialist just because it was Islamic? The Armenians found out very quickly what resistance brought in return.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Are you seriously claiming Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular wanted to be ruled by a genocidal imperialist just because it was Islamic? The Armenians found out very quickly what resistance brought in return.

Any more strawman you want to add here? Where's the rest of the reply to that last dimwitted post of yours? The quality of the latest rebuttals in this thread is amazing.

And I do quite enjoy the underhanded correlation of the Armenian genocide to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. If that was the case. Then again, the clarity of your posts are usually lacking, outside that of the quality and veracity.

Try again.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Please list all the good things the Nazis did in the Balkans.

I hear the bodies in the mass graves make good fertilizer. I guess the Nazis were trying to improve the agricultural output in the Balkans, is what JJ is trying to get at.

 

[WildCat]

Are you seriously claiming Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular wanted to be ruled by a genocidal imperialist just because it was Islamic?

Gazans certainly do, the "imperialist" part excepted of course.

 

[WildCat]

It's like claiming the Indians were racists when they used violent resistance against the British invaders or the aborginals hated whites when the British invaded Australia.

You're really equating immigrants to invaders?

 

[Virus]

It's like claiming the Indians were racists when they used violent resistance against the British invaders or the aborginals hated whites when the British invaded Australia. It had nothing to do with race, but I don't doubt hatred was present.

Except the "resistance fighters" in this case were allied and funded by the Nazis.

 

[Mycroft]

goalppost shifting and handwaving aside.....the discriminatory education funding remains and the "christian state" in the US still does not exist.

Nor did I claim it does. Where do you come up with this nonsense?

You could, however, compare levels of funding to white students with minority students. You will find discrepancies there. This despite the fact that the United States was never declared a "white" nation.

Unusual that you should be confused about that seconds one...seeing as its in black and white in your own constitution

Perhaps that's because you're trying to impose your own definition of "Christian" or "Jewish" nation, all the while pretending to be confused and ask others what it means.

So if you're only going to be satisfied with your own definition, why don't you share that definition with us and then describe how Israel fits it.

 

[a_unique_person]

Any more strawman you want to add here? Where's the rest of the reply to that last dimwitted post of yours? The quality of the latest rebuttals in this thread is amazing.

You are doing an excellent gish gallop there, I am trying to get one point resolved. You appear to be claiming that the Palestinians were content to be ruled by the Ottoman empire, as it was a 'caliphate', and therefore had no desire for self determination. That is the way I read it. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I am stating that the attempt to assert self determination by the Armenians resulted in an act of genocide. Attempting to assert self determination by those ruled by the Ottomans resulted in a devestating response.

And I do quite enjoy the underhanded correlation of the Armenian genocide to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. If that was the case. Then again, the clarity of your posts are usually lacking, outside that of the quality and veracity.

Try again.

There was no 'underhanded' correlation of the Armenian genocide to the Israeli-Palestininian conflict. If there was I would have said so. At least you have the courtesy to qualify that accusation with an "If that was the case". Such courtesies are usually lacking here. No, that was not the case.

I was only asking exactly what I asked.

 

[Skeptic]

We see here the typical hypocrisy on the usual gang's part. "How long does it take to fund education equally?" they rant about inequality in education in Israel. "Surely it cannot take THAT long -- 10 years! Israel is RACIST!".

Only it turns out that naturally Australia, the USA, Canada etc. also have their inequalities in education that are just as bad, if not worse, and have been going on for decades. Does this mean Australia, Canada, the USA etc. are all evil and racist? Of course not (really): the simple answer is that it's hard to get government funding for anything, let alone education, in most democratic countries. But only in Israel's case, of course, it is "proof" of racism, for the usual gang of antisemites who pretend to be "just anti-zionists".

Also, we have our resident communist. He constantly talks about Israeli denial of human rights -- while promoting Cuba as a "success story". Well, it turns out that on Freedom Index, Israel is doing quite well (1.5, on a scale of 1 to 7 I believe, lower is better), while Cuba is 6 -- lower than Hamas' Gaza.

Can you say, "hypocrites"?

 

[a_unique_person]

You're really equating immigrants to invaders?

One man's immigrant is another man's invader. "Australia Day" is often referred to as "Invasion Day" by Australian Aboriginals.

 

[a_unique_person]

Except the "resistance fighters" in this case were allied and funded by the Nazis.

Off on another gish gallop. The claim was that there was no desire for self determination by Arabs in General nor Palestinians in particular, they were content with an Islamic Caliphate run by the Ottomans. It was the British who aided them to remove the Ottomans. Much like the book "The King, the Mice and The Cheese", it didn't work out like that.

http://www.amazon.com/King-Mice-Cheese-Beginner-Books/dp/0394800397

 

[Virus]

Off on another gish gallop. The claim was that there was no desire for self determination by Arabs in General nor Palestinians in particular, they were content with an Islamic Caliphate run by the Ottomans. It was the British who aided them to remove the Ottomans. Much like the book "The King, the Mice and The Cheese", it didn't work out like that.

http://www.amazon.com/King-Mice-Cheese-Beginner-Books/dp/0394800397

There were two claims. That one, and one about the origin of Arab antisemitism.

 

[a_unique_person]

There were two claims. That one, and one about the origin of Arab antisemitism.

I'm working through the assertions one by one. The Palestinians were supposedly content with a caliphate, hence any violent response to a new political regime was anti-semitism, is the logic I guess.

 

[The Fool]

We see here the typical hypocrisy on the usual gang's part. "How long does it take to fund education equally?" they rant about inequality in education in Israel. "Surely it cannot take THAT long -- 10 years! Israel is RACIST!".




Can you say, "hypocrites"?

I would like to review your claim. Its difficult because you constantly quote "the usual gang". Do you think quotes from nobody are evidence? Do you think conducting a debate with yourself adds to the thread?

 

[bigjelmapro]

You are doing an excellent gish gallop there, I am trying to get one point resolved. You appear to be claiming that the Palestinians were content to be ruled by the Ottoman empire, as it was a 'caliphate', and therefore had no desire for self determination. That is the way I read it. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Point out where I claimed this?

And again, where was the call for self-determination during all the caliphates? I don't care about your assumptions of what Arabs desired, simply a call for self-determination and proof of it.

In addition to this, a response to my full post: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7289584&postcount=4593 and Mycroft's post that contradicts your claim that there wasn't rampant anti-semitism before Israel's (re-)establishment.

I am stating that the attempt to assert self determination by the Armenians resulted in an act of genocide. Attempting to assert self determination by those ruled by the Ottomans resulted in a devestating response.

There was no 'underhanded' correlation of the Armenian genocide to the Israeli-Palestininian conflict. If there was I would have said so. At least you have the courtesy to qualify that accusation with an "If that was the case". Such courtesies are usually lacking here. No, that was not the case.

So hypotheticals on top of an unsubstantiated premise.

I was only asking exactly what I asked.

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed personal comments

 

[a_unique_person]

And under which caliphate was there a call for this self-determination you constantly speak of?

I take it that is what you meant? The Ottoman Empire, of course.