• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
kageki said:
...
Click to expand...
Don't you just love Merry-go-rounds.

It is impossible that you have spent over 3 years registered and actively engaged in topics of this nature without ever before encountering the records of people on that list.

"So" ... [to use one of your favorite words] why are you pretending not to be able to answer your own question - even on the narrow criteria you attach? The Frankfurt Auschwitz trials, for example [Available in book, DVD, CD as well as a variety of digital formats - mentioned for those who genuinely don't know where to look], show there is no lack of conviction.

We know you are not the only one but you are a registered member of a global fringe. Few people beyond your fringe can read the record of Otto Moll's activities and write what you just wrote behind an earlier "so".
It is not an interpretation that follows logically from the material when processed through a functioning brain. So ... what compels you to make a mockery of human intelligence and for whose benefit? Is what you post here all just another variety on the "oy vey" soap box? Get off it.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Wroclaw View Post
That's your answer for why we discuss these atrocities. Not because they happened or didn't happen, but because people like you deny that they did. You're the one making the exception — not us.
Click to expand...

Me.

Whether it happened or didn't happen..

That's what's called a Freudian slip.

Openly disputing the details of the Holocaust myth would prove that is just a scam and take away the plethora of benefits it provides.
Click to expand...


Originally Posted by Wroclaw View Post
No, because I 100% intended to write what I wrote.
Click to expand...

I love it. Wroclaw essentially leans into my face and starts poking me in the chest and says Not because they happened or didn't happen, but because people like you deny that they did. And there's not a freaking thing you can do about it.
 
Bluespaceoddity said:
Don't you just love Merry-go-rounds.

It is impossible that you have spent over 3 years registered and actively engaged in topics of this nature without ever before encountering the records of people on that list.

"So" ... [to use one of your favorite words] why are you pretending not to be able to answer your own question - even on the narrow criteria you attach? The Frankfurt Auschwitz trials, for example [Available in book, DVD, CD as well as a variety of digital formats - mentioned for those who genuinely don't know where to look], show there is no lack of conviction.

We know you are not the only one but you are a registered member of a global fringe. Few people beyond your fringe can read the record of Otto Moll's activities and write what you just wrote behind an earlier "so".
It is not an interpretation that follows logically from the material when processed through a functioning brain. So ... what compels you to make a mockery of human intelligence and for whose benefit? Is what you post here all just another variety on the "oy vey" soap box? Get off it.
Click to expand...

A list of SS witnesses were provided before. Why can't you just answer this question?:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7286526&postcount=2979
 
kageki said:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7138575&postcount=1625

Not a single name. No mention of Ukrainian either.
Click to expand...
.
My bad: "Ukrainians" and a few posts scrolling looking for the other response I knew was, since I have actually been *following* the thread, and not just looking for nits to pick.
.
kageki said:
What was asked was specific names so this post didn't address the question.
Click to expand...
.
Okay, let's start with Hans Koch, Josef Klehr and Josef Kramer.

Now what?
.
 
Last edited:
kageki said:
... ]
Click to expand...
In the trial transcript you recently posted it says "Buhle". That should have been spelled out "Bühler or Buehler" by the court stenographer, right? Do you agree that Prof. Browning probably meant Josef Bühler - whose immediate superior at the time was Hans Frank and who was present at the Wannsee conference?
http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/transcripts/day17/pages131-135

I think your act is as transparent as Irving's was to the British court. If you are familiar enough to quote specific excerpts from that trial record there is no way you are not aware of people convicted for participating in the various phases of the extermination process - up to and including introducing the gas into the actual gas chambers- mentioned by name in that same record. When the names come up, will you be using his line of attack or will you show awareness of the fact that it was defeated and make note of the manner in which the defense of history deflated his approach?
 
Last edited:
little grey rabbit said:
So who was doing the gassing at Auschwitz. Do you have a list of names?

I mean of people who actually worked in the Krematoria, not people who did selection duty on the ramp.

Otto Moll

But there must be more. Can we make a list?
Click to expand...

So we got some names although Kramer was at Struthof-Natzweiler.

Hans Koch
Josef Klehr
Josef Kramer
 
Clayton Moore said:
Those are the kind of lies about the Germans that built the Holocaust myth. The lies are being discarded by the Holocaust mythologians but the hate remains and is reimprinted by Holocaust museums and Holocaust books about children raised by wolves and old Holocaust "death camp" survivors babbling lies to American children at paid speaking tours.
Click to expand...
That's a cool word. I'll have to use it in my RPG campaign.

Congratulations. You've actually done something productive.
 
Clayton Moore said:
I love it. Wroclaw essentially leans into my face and starts poking me in the chest and says Not because they happened or didn't happen, but because people like you deny that they did. And there's not a freaking thing you can do about it.
Click to expand...

Huh?
 
Wroclaw said:
. . . Without good forensics and documentary evidence, eyewitness testimony is basically useless, unless it's corroborated by other eyewitnesses.
Click to expand...
Yet there are 1) instances for which good forensics don't exist and 2) questions which aren't addressed by forensics (e.g., how individuals responded to deportation orders; the physical condition of ghetto inmates; the numbers removed from Lodz and Warsaw ghettos and the tactics used to remove them).

In this vein, it's pertinent to raise here something I've thought about from time to time but neither investigated systematically nor written about. Something I recently read made me think about it again.

The Nazis looted the Jews repeatedly, on the formation of ghettos, for example, during and after deportations, at the camps. One result of this massive looting was records of possessions taken from Jews and their disposition. Historians also have witness accounts, orders and guidelines, photographs, and other artifacts from the robbery.

Arad reproduces, for example, a document summarizing the guidelines for handling of stolen goods, issued by SS Brigadefuhrer August Frank of the WVHA on 16 September 1942. The document covers money in bills (destined for the Reichsbank), foreign currency and precious metals (also destined for the Reichsbank), everyday objects (to go to WVHA workshops for refurbishing), men's and women's clothing (mostly to go to VoMi), miscellany such as umbrellas and handbags (VoMi), bedding (VoMi), eyeglasses (to the Medical Authority), and furs (WVHA). The document includes a notation that this property was to be described as "loot impounded from criminals, stolen property, and hoarded loot." So this before-the-fact excuse (the kind of thing deniers leap on) strikes me as almost a smoking gun--in the retrospective view of historians.

There is of course the matter of the scale of the loot: and how congruent was the eventual hoard with the noted explanation: An Aktion Reinhard report submitted by Globocnik in February showed over 100 million Reichsmark of loot. Among the items in the stolen Jewish property were 22,324 pairs of eyeglasses, assuredly an odd item to confiscate from criminals and black market "hoarders." Pohl also made a report on "Hitherto utilization of textile materials originating from the evacuation of the Jews," relating to the death camps, which noted over a quarter of a million complete outfits of men's and women's clothing and 3,000 kilos of women's hair, the latter another odd item for confiscation. Finally, in January 1944 Globocnik sent a report attempting to close the books on Aktion Reinhard; now the total value was 178 million Reichsmark, including almost 200,000 watches in various states of repair. Perhaps all this might be explained away somehow, I don't know, it seems a stretch. Especially given Pohl's postwar testimony. But when one reads that among the looted items were gold teeth, the explanation seems increasingly difficult, as does the cover story noted in Frank's guidelines. Gold teeth? Yes, in Frank's guidelines there is number 2, "Foreign currency, rare metals, diamonds, precious stones, pearls, gold teeth, and pieces of gold" to "be transferred to the WVHA for deposit in the Reichsbank." Gold teeth. Confiscated, according to August Frank, from bad guys and hoarders. Hunh?

Witness testimony explains the dry but curious statistics. Eliyahu Rosenberg, a prisoner at Treblinka who wound up in the sorting team, Oscar Strawcinski, and Ya'akov Wiernik all described the Gold Jews, who gathered and worked on precious metals taken from Jews sent to the gas chambers. Abraham Lindwaser, a Warsaw Jew, uniquely gave eyewitness accounts of the work of the Gold Jews and the Dentists, with whom he served for about a month, working in a pit near the gas chambers, he said: "Next to the pit were two bowls with gold teeth and pliers for pulling teeth," he told the Eichmann court of his first day in Treblinka, when he was instructed "next to the gas chambers, [to] pull teeth out of the corpses." Lindwaser further testified at the Eichmann trial about his time working at "cleaning the teeth" taken from murdered Jews:

Q. How much gold from teeth was sent out of Treblinka each week?
A. Each week two suitcases were sent off, each of them containing about eight to ten kilograms.
Q. Where were they sent to?
A. They were delivered again to this Matthias, who was the chief of our camp - in fact, the chief of our barracks, of the building where we lived - and he told us that they were dispatching them to Berlin.
Q. Were they gold teeth only?
A. Gold teeth and also false teeth, that is to say, they were removed from the artificial frame.
Presiding Judge: They used to remove false teeth as well?
Witness Lindwasser: False teeth as well.

Further courtroom testimony on gold teeth taken from Jews for the benefit of the Reich was given at Nuremberg in 1947. Robert Kempner, a senior prosecutor, asked Walter Funk who gave the order "to process and deposit" the "gold teeth that were used as raw material for official Prussian currency," and Funk replied, "I didn't give it. As it happens, there were agreements between the SS and the Ministry of Finance about handling these items. . . . [Himmler] said at the time [1942], that we had confiscated significant sums in the East. He said it as an aside . . . He said that we should store them in the Reichsbank deposits room." Funk clarified that he "didn't think there was anything bad about it, because he was the chief of police. . ."

So in their "best" argument deniers argue that Treblinka was, for example, a transit camp, where Jews were unfortunately robbed before supposedly being sent further east, the hair cutting explained as part of a mythical delousing treatment at the camp. The Nazis' themselves tried a pathetic cover story having to do with bandits and hoarders, a story that doesn't even pass the smell test for latter day Nazis like Kues and his ilk; so they concoct this transit camp nonsense. In both cases--confiscations from criminals and transit camp looting--the gold teeth stand out: WTF? gold teeth removed from tough guys, along with women's underwear and eyeglasses, 10s of 1000s of items taken off hoarders? shorn hair by the bushel? Or removed from their owners as part of, ahem, a pre-journey delousing?

Give us a break. Without a single gold tooth in evidence, we have so much that is so incriminating.

It would be comical if it weren't so criminal.
 
Last edited:
MG1962 said:
I have recently been watching a TV series - The Wehrmacht. I have really enjoyed the balance of opinions from average everyday soldiers. Some thought Hitler was brilliant - others deserted. This clip is from Episode 3 - The Crimes. In terms of getting inside the average German soliders head Episode 4 is the one to watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhYi3iYrwMY&feature=related
Click to expand...

It's not as keen as 'The Nazis- A Warning From History' but this is definitely a doc series to check out. Thanx0r for teh li1Nx0r!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom