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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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The tour guide tells David Cole that the "gas chamber" is in it's original state. The Auschwitz museum curator Franciszek Piper tells David Cole that it was built after the war. So which one is telling the truth and which one is lying?

Gee, I don't know. Let's figure it out together, shall we?

Here's a Model T Ford:

http://www.musclecarclub.com/other-cars/classic/ford-model-t/images/ford-model-t-1a.jpg

Now: Tell me in a language that isn't your first (or your second) that this has been restored to its original condition. Then we'll get a native speaker of that language to determine what you said.

Work for you?

The sources are there for genuinely skeptical people to make up their own minds. If you think they are badly outdated that is only your opinion.

No, they're badly outdated even from deniers' point of view. You're a novice at this, aren't you?

In a dozen countries in Europe repeating in public what is in the links will get you jail time.

Which does nothing to prove that it's true.

The authorities in those countries including "democratic" Poland do not think this material is "outdated".

You can also go to jail in Poland for denying Stalinist atrocities. Did they also not happen?
 
So who was doing the gassing at Auschwitz. Do you have a list of names?

I mean of people who actually worked in the Krematoria, not people who did selection duty on the ramp.

Otto Moll

But there must be more. Can we make a list?

Somewhere on this thread, Nick Terry made a post that clarified this point. I'm not terribly interested in pursuing it; you can if you like.
 
And who paid the over 50 B I L L I O N in reparations?


What are you trying to suggest here? That the Allies invented the Holocaust as a way of extracting war reparations from Germany?

Considering that Germany had initiated a war of aggression against Poland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Holland, France, Britain, Denmark, Norway, and Russia, amongst others, it seems pretty clear Germany was going to be paying reparations regardless.
 
In otherwords it is a well established fact that prominent people with certain peculiar affiliations were lying about Jewish soap along time before the Red Army was anywhere near Danzig.
Since when is repeating a rumor, especially one based on threats and innuendo, that the repeater believes to be true--and recall that even Himmler choked on this one--a lie? I realize it has always fared poorly for your lot, and that trying to score such rhetorical points therefore seems important to you, but the disingenuousness and emotionalism are shamefully unbecoming.
 
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He's a denier,that's what they do.
Hmmmm yes, that would seem to be the case.

It is amusing that if a Holocaust Denier "recants" it is only because their life is being threatened, yet David Irving was quite happy to be paid to be gassed by an Australian jew on "Race Relations".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxmQJKkAymc
(forward to timecode 1.08 to get direct to the "gassing")

Why was David Cole a holocaust denier? Lets read his own words together
During my four years as a denier, I was wracked with self-hate and loathing, a fact that many of my critics were quick to point out. I was seduced by pseudo-historical nonsense and clever-sounding but empty ideas and catch-phrases. When my eyes were finally opened, thanks to several good, kind friends who had refused to give up on me even when I was at my worst, I was horrified at what I had done.

It has been brought to my attention that Bradley Smith is still using one of my videos in advertisements he is running on college campuses. Therefore, I would like to make these additional points: This video is being advertised without my consent, and I denouce this video as being without worth. Bradley Smith is no historian
 
Who was threatening David Cole with death?

Why are "they" not also threatening David Irving who has also recanted?

You made this up.


Sure I did.

Early in September 2004, Michael Cullen, the deputy prime minister of New Zealand, announced that Irving would not be permitted to visit the country, where he had been invited by the National Press Club to give a series of lectures under the heading "The Problems of Writing about World War II in a Free Society". The National Press Club defended its invitation of Irving, saying that it amounted not to an endorsement of his views, but rather an opportunity to question him. A government spokeswoman said that "people who have been deported from another country are refused entry" to New Zealand. Irving rejected the ban and attempted to board a Qantas flight for New Zealand from Los Angeles on 17 September 2004. He was not allowed on board.[105]

On 11 November 2005, the Austrian police in the southern state of Styria, acting under the 1989 warrant, arrested Irving. Irving pleaded guilty to the charge of "trivialising, grossly playing down and denying the Holocaust" and was sentenced to three years' imprisonment in accordance with the law prohibiting National Socialist activities (officially Verbotsgesetz, "Prohibition Statute"). After he was arrested, Irving claimed in his plea that he changed his opinions on the Holocaust, "I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews."[106] Irving sat motionless as Liebtreu asked him if he had understood the sentence, to which he replied "I'm not sure I do" before being bundled out of the court by Austrian police. Later, Irving declared himself shocked by the severity of the sentence. He reportedly had already purchased a plane ticket home to London.[107]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Persona_non_grata
 
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Sorry Clayton, telling someone they cant enter a country or getting 3 years in a local gaol do not equate to the death penalty.

David John Cawdell Irving
24 March 1938 (1938-03-24) (age 73)
Brentwood, Essex, England


Pretty dam close.
 
Sorry Clayton, telling someone they cant enter a country or getting 3 years in a local gaol do not equate to the death penalty.
That was ridiculous. New Zealand didn't let USA nuclear ships use New Zealand port facilities. Was that New Zealand "death threatening" the USA? The New Zealanders also "blew" a Mossad passport nicking team and banned Mossad from operating in New Zealand. Was that a "death threat" against Israel? New Zealand doesn't like freaks, foreign spies and nuclear weapons.....good on New Zealand.

Australia additionally bankrupts holocaust deniers like Toben because they are stupid and lose court cases, just like Irving in the UK.


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...d-for-parliament/story-e6frea83-1226075692902
 
That was ridiculous. New Zealand didn't let USA nuclear ships use New Zealand port facilities. Was that New Zealand "death threatening" the USA? The New Zealanders also "blew" a Mossad passport nicking team and banned Mossad from operating in New Zealand. Was that a "death threat" against Israel? New Zealand doesn't like freaks, foreign spies and nuclear weapons.....good on New Zealand.

Australia additionally bankrupts holocaust deniers like Toben because they are stupid and lose court cases, just like Irving in the UK.


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...d-for-parliament/story-e6frea83-1226075692902

Stupid is believing the smartest people on the planet could be conned, about a million a year, into going to death camps.
 
David Irving
Pretty dam close.

Irving spent 10 days of a three-month sentence in London's Pentonville prison for contempt of court following a legal wrangling over publishing rights

In Austria, Irving pleaded guilty to the charge of "trivialising, grossly playing down and denying the Holocaust" and was sentenced to three years' imprisonment in accordance with the law prohibiting National Socialist activities. Irving claimed in his sentencing plea that he changed his opinions on the Holocaust
, "I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews.

Irving was then attacked by holocaust deniers for recanting. Read Jurgen Graf's letter to Irving and Irving's reply.
"In my opinion, a mass extermination took place in the aforementioned three camps . Evidence:
- The well-known correspondence between Wolff and Ganzenmüller concerning Malkinia/Treblinka.
- Himmler’s order not to leave any traces at Treblinka and later to build a farmhouse there.
- Personal interrogation of two witnesses… about Belzec, if the authenticity [of their statements] can be proved.
- The decoded Höfle radio message from January 1943 and in this connection the Korherr report.
- For 1942: The Höfle document mentions a figure of 1’274’166. For 1942 and 1943, Himmler’s documents reveal the extent of the Reinhardt loot – jewels, watches, coins. Based on this information, it is possible to guess or to calculate an approximate figure for 1943, to wit more than one million.


http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/david-irving-and-the-aktion-reinhardt-camps.html
 
Stupid is believing the smartest people on the planet could be conned, about a million a year, into going to death camps.
"Conned" into going into a death camp? It was the law and you don't know anything about basic history. You have never read a whole book in your life, have you?
 
"Conned" into going into a death camp? It was the law and you don't know anything about basic history. You have never read a whole book in your life, have you?

After the first year when all contact is lost with the first million nobody pays any attention to the law. Nobody takes their family to Polish death camps after that first year. That's how freaking reality works.

You do know there was mail in the death camps, and people got paid for work performed in the camps and near by businesses. And labor was valuable to the German war effort. Killing 19,000 people a week couldn't be kept a secret and the workers would go nuts if they thought they or family members were going to be or were killed. You KILL a person's child and you can never rely on that person for anything.
 
Clayton Moore; said:
After the first year when all contact is lost with the first million nobody pays any attention to the law. Nobody takes their family to Polish death camps after that first year. That's how freaking reality works.
Clayton. They were moved from ghettos to extermination camps by men with guns or rounded up by men with guns. Polish jews didn't "choose" to be exterminated. That's how freaking reality works


Clayton Moore; said:
You do know there was mail in the death camps, and people got paid for work performed in the camps and near by businesses.
Are these Todt Organisation labour camps? SS run labour camps or AR extermination camps like Treblinka II? Can you be more specific? You don't seem to know the difference between the different camps.

Can you show me a letter from Treblinka II? ( You can't can you as it was a pure extermination camp, wasn't it?)



Clayton Moore; said:
And labor was valuable to the German war effort.
Have you read Albert Speer's books? He ran labour in Germany and ran the Todt Organisation. He explains in detail. You make stuff up from a farm in America in 2011

Clayton Moore; said:
Killing 19,000 people a week couldn't be kept a secret and the workers would go nuts if they thought they or family members were going to be or were killed.
At the Dora underground aircraft factory 30,000 camp workers died out of the 60,000 sent there from starvation and disease. Their families were already executed. No one cared.

The best political weapon is the weapon of terror. Cruelty commands respect. Men may hate us. But, we don't ask for their love; only for their fear. Heinrich Himmler

Clayton Moore; said:
You KILL a person's child and you can never rely on that person for anything.
They beat the workers to death. Even in the normal Todt organisation labour camps ex-camp labourers who were late for duty or ill were sent to back to SS KZ camps. Speer talks about this in detail. As you have not read anything you haven't got a clue how labour was managed in Germany.

Can you name one book you have ever read about WWII? (watching movies doesn't count)
 
Clayton. They were moved from ghettos to extermination camps by men with guns or rounded up by men with guns. Polish jews didn't "choose" to be exterminated. That's how freaking reality works


Are these Todt Organisation labour camps? SS run labour camps or AR extermination camps like Treblinka II? Can you be more specific? You don't seem to know the difference between the different camps.

Can you show me a letter from Treblinka II? ( You can't can you as it was a pure extermination camp, wasn't it?)



Have you read Albert Speer's books? He ran labour in Germany and ran the Todt Organisation. He explains in detail. You make stuff up from a farm in America in 2011

At the Dora underground aircraft factory 30,000 camp workers died out of the 60,000 sent there from starvation and disease. Their families were already executed. No one cared.

The best political weapon is the weapon of terror. Cruelty commands respect. Men may hate us. But, we don't ask for their love; only for their fear. Heinrich Himmler

They beat the workers to death. Even in the normal Todt organisation labour camps ex-camp labourers who were late for duty or ill were sent to back to SS KZ camps. Speer talks about this in detail. As you have not read anything you haven't got a clue how labour was managed in Germany.

Can you name one book you have ever read about WWII? (watching movies doesn't count)

I thank you for the myth trip.
 
Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Stupid is believing the smartest people on the planet could be conned, about a million a year, into going to death camps.
"Conned" into going into a death camp? It was the law and you don't know anything about basic history. You have never read a whole book in your life, have you?

Can you name one book you have ever read about WWII? (watching movies doesn't count)

It might be mildly amusing for Clayton Moore to undertake the first, and minimum, necessity which any revisionist historian must do, that is, summarize the point of view and argument to be revised and explain the reasons. In this case, that would mean his sketching out for our amusement how he thinks most historians describe the deportation and transportation program by which Jews were dispatched to death camps. If he doesn't feel up to a general survey of the research on this topic, he could start with a narrower focus, say, summaries of what the literature says about two well discussed cases, the removal of Jews from Lodz to Chelmno in the children's and old people's action, or Gehsperre (September 1942), and the Great Deportation from Warsaw to Treblinka (July-September 1942).

If he can tackle this, we can then collectively giggle as he attempts to explain the various types of camps, ghettos, etc., employed by the Nazis during this period.

A step at a time, a chuckle a minute.
 
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Irving spent 10 days of a three-month sentence in London's Pentonville prison for contempt of court following a legal wrangling over publishing rights

In Austria, Irving pleaded guilty to the charge of "trivialising, grossly playing down and denying the Holocaust" and was sentenced to three years' imprisonment in accordance with the law prohibiting National Socialist activities. Irving claimed in his sentencing plea that he changed his opinions on the Holocaust
, "I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews.

Irving was then attacked by holocaust deniers for recanting. Read Jurgen Graf's letter to Irving and Irving's reply.
"In my opinion, a mass extermination took place in the aforementioned three camps . Evidence:
- The well-known correspondence between Wolff and Ganzenmüller concerning Malkinia/Treblinka.
- Himmler’s order not to leave any traces at Treblinka and later to build a farmhouse there.
- Personal interrogation of two witnesses… about Belzec, if the authenticity [of their statements] can be proved.
- The decoded Höfle radio message from January 1943 and in this connection the Korherr report.
- For 1942: The Höfle document mentions a figure of 1’274’166. For 1942 and 1943, Himmler’s documents reveal the extent of the Reinhardt loot – jewels, watches, coins. Based on this information, it is possible to guess or to calculate an approximate figure for 1943, to wit more than one million.


http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/david-irving-and-the-aktion-reinhardt-camps.html

What do you think about this part you decided to omit?:
(it cannot be proved that it was carried out by means of gas; as you know, this is highly controversial)

You should know better then to quote like that without using an ellipsis.
 
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