Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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Since C7 ignoired my last post, allow me to repeat the question:


Christopher7 said:
As far as NIST is concerned, that is the final theory.
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Do you have an official and current NIST statement, issued after other researchers offered their additional thoughts, that this is so? Does NIST state that the theory as per the final report is unchangeable and perpetual truth, engraved in stone, gospel? That would be quite foolish.

If no such statement exists, then your claim is foolish.
 
Clayton Moore said:
That is ridiculous. I'm sure your mates will agree.
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Yup...

Your ignorance and incredulity are a major handicap... do some freaking BASIC research.

P.s. why do they require fireproofing on structural steel? You might want to look that up.
 
Dave Rogers said:
So, not satisfied with trying to expose the real story behind 9/11 by concealing your hypothesis, you're planning to blow the whole thing wide open by concealing the findings of your research too?

Dave
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He's blowing the silent whistle and beating the quiet drum, soon the hordes invisible will come.
 
chrismohr said:
I'm not so sure about that Ryan. I think Kevin Ryan might have made or used a sample of nanos but I'm not sure. As for them planting thermites in the dust, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Knowing them personally, I am not at all convinced that they would do this... I wouldn't 100% vouch for them but I've seen no evidence of Gage's group planting false evidence. And there may be ways for that to be discovered if they did. For example, RJ Lee may well still have some dust samples of their own from 2003, and NIST or someone may have samples. At the least I would push hard for giving them enough of the benefit of the doubt to support another test. If thermites come out, I would push to look for an independent study of another dust sample with a completely different chain of custody. If that tests positive too we'll all owe our favorite Truth activist a drink!

But... again... one baby step at a time here...

I have asked that they submit a dust sample for independent testing and one guy from AE911 said he'll look into it. That's all so far. Probably premature for me to even mention it.
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I suspect the Devil will be wearing long underwear before you see those samples.
 
NoahFence said:
C7 - what's your alternate theory? If you find NIST to be so utterly wrong, surely you've got a better explanation?


WHAT IS IT
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Yes C7,what is your theory? Java Man and CE both have theories that have to remain a secret,for reasons that they won't divulge. Do you have one and does it have to remain a secret too?
 
RedIbis said:
Well, I've always found you civil and friendly and you've even made me laugh at what must be frustrating about my approach. Still, when asked a direct, specific question, rather than disingenuous hypotheticals, I have tried to answer as sincerely as possible. If you ask me vaguely, "what do you think happened?" The only honest answer is "I don't know." I don't know what happened in Shanksville, but the initial claim is still under enormous scrutiny with the obligation to provide evidence. If this obligation isn't met reasonably, just because no alternative theory is presented does not make it correct.
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Interesting. If your answer is “I don’t know”, then you surely must have specific unanswered questions that led to your doubt of the results of the investigation of the Shanksville crash. Perhaps your suggested moderated thread could be a list of these questions.

I disagree with you that the investigation is “still under enormous scrutiny”. I’m not really aware of anyone outside the truth movement that seriously questions the results of the investigation. The FDR from the aircraft was recovered, so we know pretty precisely how and where the aircraft went down. We have the recovered aircraft parts, DNA from passengers, phone calls from passengers describing what was happening pre-crash, etc. As someone who has done many mishap investigations, this one would seem to be a fairly easy one to find the root cause(s).

I agree with your picks for topics. I agree that the wheat has to be separated from the chaff, but you must notice that for every wacky space beam theory, there are literally hundreds of posts choosing to focus on such topics and avoiding some of the ones you've mentioned. With that, this sub-forum is absolutely flooded with rancor and worthless topics about Twoofers, and other such nonsense (although with some recent housecleaning I bet that will be cut down some).
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No argument here. Unfortunately, there is a need to debunk the wacky space beam theories right alongside the more serious discussions. Bad science needs to be challenged wherever and whenever it crops up.

Like you, I dislike the rancorous and worthless topics about Twoofers for the most part. I generally don’t participate in those threads. In fact, I don’t often participate in the “good” threads unless I feel I have something to add that goes to my experience, education, or training.

I suppose I should chastise my fellow debunkers for starting such threads, but I can’t post to the forum while I’m working, so they’ve usually taken on a life of their own by the time I can comment. In the same vein, I think it would be great if you occasionally chastised some of the truthers for some of their silly, trollish behavior. I suppose no matter which side of the fence you’re on, sometimes the most you can do is sigh and shake your head in disgust.

If there's a thread or a debate devoted entirely to objective research and civil discussion, you'd probably not find me anywhere else. I imagine you'd appreciate that as well. There are a few, on both sides who would enjoy a mature, friendly environment to research what might be the most compelling and complicated historical event in history without it always descending into a childish pissing match.
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Couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately, posters on both sides of the debate can easily slip into immature, unfriendly conduct. I’m not sure how to combat that. Even a moderated thread has to allow posts that are on topic and don’t violate the forum rules, regardless of how unfriendly they appear.

I still suggest that you start your own moderated thread to discuss what you feel are the questionable or unaddressed issues regarding the Shanksville crash. However, you really need to engage when asked legitimate questions rather that avoiding, obfuscating, or shifting goal posts.

You’re apparently one of the better educated folks who have questions about 9/11. You are a fine writer with excellent skills as manifested by your sentence formation, spelling, punctuation, etc. If you can apply the same skills to your thinking processes, and actually take a debate to its conclusion, your moderated thread should be successful.

Good luck with your thread. I’ll participate (if I have something worthwhile to add), and I promise to so in a mature, friendly way.
 
Clayton Moore said:
If it had crashed into the ground on purpose there would have been debris cluttering up those pictures.
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There are none so blind as those who will not see

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/flt93debris21sm.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/flt93debris8sm.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/flt93debris18sm.jpg
Thousands of aircraft parts
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/flt93debris22sm.jpg
buried engine
You have delusions, and you can't see.
 
Clayton Moore said:
If it had crashed into the ground on purpose there would have been debris cluttering up those pictures.
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Um no. That happens when planes crash at low speed and at oblique angles. Are you aware that there are huge chunks of crashed airliners still buried at some of their crash sites?
 
Clayton Moore said:
If it had crashed into the ground on purpose there would have been debris cluttering up those pictures.
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Just what is your working theory in regard to Flight 93, CM? There are several out there, as it were:

1) There was no plane. Just a hole in the ground with some stuffs thrown around.

2) Plane was shot down by Army/Air force/Illuminati, etc.

3) Plane was flown somewhere else, passengers were dumped in Atlantic. Load of junk was dumped in Shanksville.

4) Plane landed in Ohio. Passengers are living in witness protection programs. Shanksville? Where's that?

5) Other ridiculous idea __________________.
 
So, how many people did you guys figure would have had to be involved again? And that's scientific right?
 
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tempesta29 said:
So, how many people did you guys figure would have had to be involved again? And that's scientific right?
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If you're going to invoke LIHOP you need to actually ensure that the source you're making a reference from as a whistle blower actually supports the same idea. Beyond this article talking about a matter of government incompetence I fail to see the significance that either you or redibis sees in it.
 
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tempesta29 said:
So, how many people did you guys figure would have had to be involved again? And that's scientific right?
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16,796.

Plus three hamsters and a goat. And if you need that explained to you then you clearly don't understand physics.
 
tempesta29 said:
So, how many people did you guys figure would have had to be involved again? And that's scientific right?
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small knives, box cutters 5 dollars
room and board 850 dollars
flight lessons for 4 or more 25,000 dollars
19 idiots who want to die for god
priceless
for everything else, Master Card
 
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beachnut said:
small knives, box cutters 5 dollars
room and board 850 dollars
flight lessons for 4 or more 25,000 dollars
19 idiots who want to die for god
priceless
for everything else, Master Card
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You'd think after you edited it that it would at least be clever.

You'd think that...
 
NoahFence said:
I think truthers spend too much time trying to explain why it shouldn't have looked the way it did, and zero time trying to explain how they feel it should have looked.
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What is "it" exactly? Think about the fallacy in your question.
 
tempesta29 said:
So no answer then. How many people would it take and how did you achieve this figure?
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If you have such an interest in explaining why 19 islamic fanatics with nothing on their minds but 72 virgins in death, divided into 4 groups hijacking 4 planes can't have done the attacks then make the thread. This is about whistle blowers; something you appear curiously reluctant to address.
 
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