Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Fine]

That doesn't make sense either. If she feared Rudy, why leave all the incriminating evidence and point it out to the police, but then not tell them who he was? How is telling the police who he was via the forensics any different to telling them who he was verbally?
It also ignores the idea that if she told then he'd be in jail and she either wouldn't be, and could go home, thus being safe from him, or if she was in jail too, then they'd be in different jails.

Finally it doesn't explain why she simply didn't change her story from Patrick to Rudy once the police had him, and claimed that she was scared of him while he was free and so had to keep up the pretence until she knew she was safe.

It makes no sense at all.

________________________

PhantomWolf,


Amanda, while a witness, never accused Rudy but she did mention Rudy to the cops while she was being interrogated. Apparently she didn't recall his name---and thought he was from South Africa---but she provided an accurate description of Rudy and remembered that he'd attended a party at the cottage downstairs flat. Amanda gave this information to Rita Ficarra. Rita recounted this segment of Amanda's interrogation during her testimony before the court. If Amanda had been trying to protect Rudy, would she have mentioned this to Rita? See: HERE

///

 

[PhantomWolf]

________________________

PhantomWolf,


Amanda, while a witness, never accused Rudy but she did mention Rudy to the cops while she was being interrogated. Apparently she didn't recall his name---and thought he was from South Africa---but she provided an accurate description of Rudy and remembered that he'd attended a party at the cottage downstairs flat. Amanda gave this information to Rita Ficarra. Rita recounted this segment of Amanda's interrogation during her testimony before the court. If Amanda had been trying to protect Rudy, would she have mentioned this to Rita? See: HERE

///

Good point, so not only did she point out to the police the dung in the dunee with his DNA all over, and if you believe in guilt, clean up all the evidence but that which pointed at Rudy, she then went on to describe Rudy to the police, and yet in all this she was protecting him because she was scared of him, or something, meaning that she then turned about after all that and accused someone one else totally when given the chance to put the nail in Rudy's coffin. That's some serious mental gymnastics there that one has to go through to believe she was a scheming vixen who was totally in control of the whole thing.

 

[Mary_H]

Originally Posted by Kaosium
because I do think the information suggests they actually believed they had the right people, whether any of them really bought Mignini's ridiculous theory or not.

QFE. This is the important part to my mind. I think they believed it so much that in their eyes anything they did to get the conviction was justified.

I would go along with this up to the point where it lets the police off the hook.

The interrogators believed they had the right people not only because they were predisposed to believe Giobbi and Mignini, but also because they were predisposed to believe a ridiculous theory.

Amanda had been profiled for a sex murder no less than when police in the US profile black teenagers for robbing convenience stores. When the cops take the kids down to the station, they are met by a bunch of people who are convinced it is reasonable to suspect black kids of robbing convenience stores. When Amanda was interrogated in the Questura, it was by a bunch of people who were convinced it was reasonable to suspect a cute American girl of being involved in a bizarre, three-way sex murder.

 

[snook1]

That's not exactly incriminating story though. And as Phantom explained above, it's almost totally worthless.

 

[Mary_H]

That's not exactly a incriminating story though. And as Phantom explained above, it's almost totally worthless.

To which post are you responding, snook1?

 

[snook1]

To which post are you responding, snook1?

To Fine's.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I would go along with this up to the point where it lets the police off the hook.

The interrogators believed they had the right people not only because they were predisposed to believe Giobbi and Mignini, but also because they were predisposed to believe a ridiculous theory.

Amanda had been profiled for a sex murder no less than when police in the US profile black teenagers for robbing convenience stores. When the cops take the kids down to the station, they are met by a bunch of people who are convinced it is reasonable to suspect black kids of robbing convenience stores. When Amanda was interrogated in the Questura, it was by a bunch of people who were convinced it was reasonable to suspect a cute American girl of being involved in a bizarre, three-way sex murder.

I'm not sure that it does let the police off the hook. I'm also not sure that they were believers of the "3-way gone wrong" theory at the time of the interview though, I think that if they were that they would have pushed for Amanda's "Confession" to have more details that supported that sort of story and they didn't even get her to say that Raffaele was there let alone anything that would indicate that the killing was over a sex game gone wrong.

 

[Kaosium]

That's not exactly incriminating story though. And as Phantom explained above, it's almost totally worthless.

To Fine's.

I suspect Fine didn't think it was incriminating either, the way the post was worded it seemed to be suggesting that were Amanda 'protecting' Rudy she wouldn't have given Ficarra a description of him.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

the nun in Amanda's diary

I am not sure I understand your edit. Do you mean that Amanda imagined the sister's visit and words spoken to her?

christianahannah,

What I meant was that I am agnostic with respect to the reason that Amanda's memory came back. If someone wishes to see the hand of God helping her memory to return, I will not stand in his or her way. Likewise, if one wishes to believe that Amanda's memory returned naturally, that interpretation is fine by me as well. BTW, I don't think anyone even knows whether or not the nun had an opinion about what Amanda would remember.

 

[Kaosium]

President of Italy Interested

Here's an article about the President of Italy, Giorgio Napolitano, who incidentally gets a sex-change thanks to Google translate, following the Amanda Knox case. It is hopeful at the end that this will be the last birthday Amanda spends in jail. The president of course does the required proskynesis before the majesty of the Italian Court System.



Girlanda (Pdl): "The Head of State follows the story of Amanda Knox"
The appeal of the Italy-USA Foundation
Tue, 14/06/2011 - 16:03 - Staff Writer
Article Image - The site of Italy

"The Head of State ''keeps track of developments in this complex story.''

E 'confirmation as the diplomatic advisor of the President, Ambassador Stefanini, Giorgio Napolitano in response to the call in favor of Amanda Knox launched the President of the Italy-USA Foundation, Congressman PDL Umbria Rocco Girlanda. The President of the Republic''- says the letter made public by Girlanda - appreciates the care with which she follows the human aspects of a situation that certainly has painful consequences for all who are involved.

The commitment that characterizes the work of the Foundation which she presided at the service of the strengthening of bilateral relations between Italy and the United States - continues - will certainly help to avoid confusion and misunderstandings that could lead to negative consequences, which have so far carefully avoided in relations between the two countries. And 'in fact necessary to keep in mind the judiciary as a democratic country should be fully respected and protected in the independence of his duties, even when the specific rules of jurisdiction may differ, as she notes, among other nations.''

For its part, points out that''Girlanda appreciation that President Napolitano speaks clearly to me and to the USA Foundation Italy, as far as my commitment to Amanda, comforts me and motivates me to greater effort because they are as soon as the truth, as I seem to be happening during the appeal process. I take comfort that even the President of the Republic, with its moral and political authority representing the whole nation, he personally followed the case of Amanda, and justly evaluate''complex''beyond the easy and superficial conclusions that are rather often emerged in the media.

I am pleased - said the deputy - to have informed the head of state for it to be fully aware of the distortions that occurred in both phases of the investigation, with inappropriate behavior by the police, is the first trial with the non-recognition of the right defense of the accused, as I reported recently, with a parliamentary question to the Minister of Justice, signed along with ten other colleagues. Today I can say to be very confident that the next birthday Amanda, July 9, will be the last that will spend away from home and his family.'' (MP)"

 

[Fine]

christianahannah,

What I meant was that I am agnostic with respect to the reason that Amanda's memory came back. If someone wishes to see the hand of God helping her memory to return, I will not stand in his or her way. Likewise, if one wishes to believe that Amanda's memory returned naturally, that interpretation is fine by me as well. BTW, I don't think anyone even knows whether or not the nun had an opinion about what Amanda would remember.

______________________

Halides,

Yes, her memory did return naturally, meaning her ability to recall events in her past. The memories themselves hadn't gone anywhere. It's an example of a person recovering from a concussion, one who suffered impairment of mental functioning.

It was only after Amanda had been hit in the head ---by the cop on the night of November 5th---that she lost her ability to properly recall events of November 1st. Her email of November 4th shows no memory impairment. (And if the cops had been asking her about events on October 31st, which they didn't, she would have presented the same memory impairment.) It was several days after her concussion, while in prison, that those memories came flooding back to her..........meaning they'd been there all the time!

"Everything came back to me like a flood, one detail after another...."

So something-or-other happened to Amanda on the night of November 5th which impaired her ability to recall her memories, an impairment that didn't exist prior to November 5th, and that impairment lasted for several days. Can shouting, lies, and vending machine food do that? We know what can. Boom!

///

 

[platonov]

"Dopo di me il diluvio!"

christianahannah,

What I meant was that I am agnostic with respect to the reason that Amanda's memory came back. If someone wishes to see the hand of God helping her memory to return, I will not stand in his or her way. Likewise, if one wishes to believe that Amanda's memory returned naturally, that interpretation is fine by me as well. BTW, I don't think anyone even knows whether or not the nun had an opinion about what Amanda would remember.

"Everything came back to me like a flood, one detail after another...."


So the hand of god or the head of Amanda.

Tough call.

Maybe the nun gave her a dig and that rattled the memories loose.

What was her name, Sister Gentile ?

 

[Kaosium]

"Everything came back to me like a flood, one detail after another...."


So the hand of god or the head of Amanda.

Tough call.

Maybe the nun gave her a dig and that rattled the memories loose.

What was her name, Sister Gentile ?

'When I find myself in times of trouble Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, LET IT BE

And in my hour of darkness she's standing right in front of me,
Speaking words of wisdom, LET IT BE...'

I heard she was singing this once in court and it caused some to think her crazy...seems like a good way to relieve stress personally. I can't do Beatles for the most part, but that's a good song. It was one of their last too, I think, one of few the Seventies releases.

Incidentally, I came across that quote recently but can't recall where for sure, was it the trial testimony I posted a few pages back? It wouldn't surprise me there was a moment she had a flood of memories after being traumatized like that by the police. I'm sure you find something deeply suspicious about it though...

 

[Kaosium]

______________________

Halides,

Yes, her memory did return naturally, meaning her ability to recall events in her past. The memories themselves hadn't gone anywhere. It's an example of a person recovering from a concussion, one who suffered impairment of mental functioning.

It was only after Amanda had been hit in the head ---by the cop on the night of November 5th---that she lost her ability to properly recall events of November 1st. Her email of November 4th shows no memory impairment. (And if the cops had been asking her about events on October 31st, which they didn't, she would have presented the same memory impairment.) It was several days after her concussion, while in prison, that those memories came flooding back to her..........meaning they'd been there all the time!

"Everything came back to me like a flood, one detail after another...."

So something-or-other happened to Amanda on the night of November 5th which impaired her ability to recall her memories, an impairment that didn't exist prior to November 5th, and that impairment lasted for several days. Can shouting, lies, and vending machine food do that? We know what can. Boom!

///

LOL!

No, she still had her memories, such as they were being fogged a little by hash, as you can see in her note. What were confusing them, it seems, were the suggestions insisted upon by the interrogators, which for a little while she indicates she wasn't certain whether they were real or imagination. The 'hard evidence' and the cops telling her about Raffaele's 'load of crap' no doubt caused further confusion, what it appears to me she was missing was clarity.

Eventually her mind worked it out it appears, and the proper sequence was restored as the 'memories' implanted by high pressure interrogation tactics in her vulnerable state faded. Perhaps she is describing a 'spark' of realization as she can now go through her memories of the evening as a whole without being confused by the imaginings they and the 'evidence' suggested were real? Perhaps in a 'flood' her mind goes through it all at once in a 'test run' kind of thing?

 

[platonov]

black and blue uniforms.....

..............

Incidentally, I came across that quote recently but can't recall where for sure, was it the trial testimony I posted a few pages back? It wouldn't surprise me there was a moment she had a flood of memories after being traumatized like that by the police. I'm sure you find something deeply suspicious about it though...

No, you are confusing the waterboarding (bad - cops) with the flood (good - nuns).

Perhaps they should have had Sr. Gentile doing a 'man marking job' on her when she was on the stand (And on Dec 17 ) to prompt her 'memory' when necessary.

 

[Kaosium]

No, you are confusing the waterboarding (bad - cops) with the flood (good - nuns).

Perhaps they should have had Sr. Gentile doing a 'man marking job' on her when she was on the stand (And on Dec 17 ) to prompt her 'memory' when necessary.

That was one or two years later at that point, and what she was being asked were often irrelevancies anyway. I got interested in this case almost a year ago now, it was July 3rd, which I actually had to look up as I wasn't sure what day of the week the Fourth fell on. Now, I am almost certain it was at a crappy motel off the interstate between Buffalo and Rochester (New York) but I don't remember the name of the motel. I remember there was no remote but there was Wi-fi which I thought kinda odd, but I don't remember what I had to eat that night. I still have the memory of reading a certain somewhere for about two hours and thinking I was starting to get a handle on the players involved in the case and then seeing someone refer to Raffaele as a 'boyfriend.' Boyfriend?! I thought, how come I haven't seen him mentioned before? (this is true!)

Once I got to my vacation destination, a little resort in the Thousand Islands, I remember reading about this case during the night, but I don't recall the name of the place I was staying, and I stayed there all week and also in '03. Now, does your memory work perfectly on events that long ago? Especially when there's other more searing memories that tend to dominate that time period? I can understand Amanda not remembering, or not being sure enough to want to say, and certainly not wanting to speculate considering she's amongst people who think her little more than an animal and are looking for any little mistake so they can cage her for life.

 

[platonov]

Oh that ? I hadn't thought about it since - until you brought it up.

That was one or two years later at that point, and what she was being asked were often irrelevancies anyway. I got interested in this case almost a year ago now, it was July 3rd, which I actually had to look up as I wasn't sure what day of the week the Fourth fell on. Now, I am almost certain it was at a crappy motel off the interstate between Buffalo and Rochester (New York) but I don't remember the name of the motel. I remember there was no remote but there was Wi-fi which I thought kinda odd, but I don't remember what I had to eat that night. I still have the memory of reading a certain somewhere for about two hours and thinking I was starting to get a handle on the players involved in the case and then seeing someone refer to Raffaele as a 'boyfriend.' Boyfriend?! I thought, how come I haven't seen him mentioned before? (this is true!)

Once I got to my vacation destination, a little resort in the Thousand Islands, I remember reading about this case during the night, but I don't recall the name of the place I was staying, and I stayed there all week and also in '03. Now, does your memory work perfectly on events that long ago? Especially when there's other more searing memories that tend to dominate that time period? I can understand Amanda not remembering, or not being sure enough to want to say, and certainly not wanting to speculate considering she's amongst people who think her little more than an animal and are looking for any little mistake so they can cage her for life.

They weren't, she had already been asked (and had written) about these issues in the days following the murder* and Dec 17 was 6 weeks later.

*of her 'friend', remember ? - the one she was arrested for 4 days later.
Most [ 'jurists' ] would regard that as memorable - YMMV

'I don't remember' & 'I was confused' when overused on the stand in a murder trial helps gets you caged for life as we have seen.

 

[spartacus]

They weren't, she had already been asked (and had written) about these issues in the days following the murder* and Dec 17 was 6 weeks later.

*of her 'friend', remember ? - the one she was arrested for 4 days later.
Most [ 'jurists' ] would regard that as memorable - YMMV

'I don't remember' & 'I was confused' when overused on the stand in a murder trial helps gets you caged for life as we have seen.

Could you tell me what country that is in please? I'd like to know so I can be sure not to go there. I'd hate to get locked up for life for the simple crime of not remembering every detail of what happened to me two years before.

 

[platonov]

Could you tell me what country that is in please? I'd like to know so I can be sure not to go there. I'd hate to get locked up for life for the simple crime of not remembering every detail of what happened to me two years before.

Italy & most countries I've heard of.

If the cops are asking you Q's about a murder the very next day tell em' you want to emigrate
- it might work.

But in case it doesn't, have Sr. Gentile's number handy

 

[Kaosium]

Italy & most countries I've heard of.

If the cops are asking you Q's about a murder the very next day tell em' you want to emigrate
- it might work.

But in case it doesn't, have Sr. Gentile's number handy

Most countries utilize a custom apparently little known in portions of Italy called evidence.

Did you read the Matteini Report I linked about a half-dozen pages back? What there did you find especially compelling as evidence of murder against all three?