Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Kaosium]

Again, the calunnia charges have nothing to do with how U.S. Consular officers handled her situation (the basis of the judge's letter). Can you provide any evidence that the U.S. Consular officers who handled her situation acted any differently than any other American arrested in Italy in 2007? Based on what U.S. and international laws allows, what exact assistance was Amanda not given?

Is being hit when being questioned not a violation of Italian law? Weren't they supposed to, and said they did, ensure that her rights were not violated under Italian law when being questioned? That note was out shortly after she was arrested, printed in the Telegraph by the end of the month at the very latest. I wouldn't expect them to believe her inherently, Alt, but they could have asked for the tapes of the interrogation to verify it under section 141-bis which required them to tape it...

 

[Poppy1016]

Yikes, I thought we were discussing the Knox case lol

 

[Poppy1016]

Hi Kaosium, yes hitting while questioning is illegal in Italy,as is the failure to record an interrogation, as is refusing to allow legal council

 

[Alt+F4]

Is being hit when being questioned not a violation of Italian law? Weren't they supposed to, and said they did, ensure that her rights were not violated under Italian law when being questioned? That note was out shortly after she was arrested, printed in the Telegraph by the end of the month at the very latest. I wouldn't expect them to believe her inherently, Alt, but they could have asked for the tapes of the interrogation to verify it under section 141-bis which required them to tape it...

U.S. Consular officers have no right to ask for any interrogation tapes.

As for being hit, when did Amanda tell this to the U.S. Consular officers and make a formal complaint to the U.S. Embassy in Rome about this or any other violations she believed she suffered under the Italians that was not being addressed by the Americans?

 

[Kaosium]

U.S. Consular officers have no right to ask for any interrogation tapes.

Cite?



Aren't they supposed to look into violations of the law against Americans in foreign lands? What do you suppose they are supposed to do for people in Amanda's situation? Forget all about it and go to a bunga-bunga party instead?

As for being hit, when did Amanda tell this to the U.S. Consular officers and make a formal complaint to the U.S. Embassy in Rome about this or any other violations she believed she suffered under the Italians that was not being addressed by the Americans?

It's in her note, which was published in the Telegraph on November 22nd. I used that as an example it was available to the public because I recalled it off the top of my head. If a British reporter could get their hands on it, an American Embassy official certainly could have too.

 

[Mary_H]

Yikes, I thought we were discussing the Knox case lol

Where is lionking when we need him?

 

[Mary_H]

U.S. Consular officers have no right to ask for any interrogation tapes.

As for being hit, when did Amanda tell this to the U.S. Consular officers and make a formal complaint to the U.S. Embassy in Rome about this or any other violations she believed she suffered under the Italians that was not being addressed by the Americans?

If they visited Amanda in her jail cell before she appeared before Judge Matteini, they would have known she had not yet seen a lawyer, in fact, that she had been interrogated, hit and arrested without having access to a lawyer. If they did not visit her in her jail cell immediately upon her arrest, then shame on them. It is not the defendant's duty to keep everyone notified of these circumstances, especially when she is locked up. The Perugians should have notified the consulate and the consul should have visited Amanda, in short order.

On the other hand, Amanda's lawyers should have argued these breaches of the law as well, particularly in light of the fact that the only evidence that then (or ever) existed against her was the coerced confession/accusation.

 

[Poppy1016]

Hi Mary, I know my ideas of the case are rather simplistic. Just have basic ideas as to what was wrong in this case. Starting with the case being closed before it started. That started the whole mess. The failure to record the interrogation was purposeful and ridiculous. Amanda was a naiive kid and acted inappropriately and spoke way too much. A lawer would have prevented this. No evidence ever put Amanda in the murder room. That to me is the case in a nutshell. I look forward to the day this wrong is righted.

 

[Alt+F4]

Cite?

http://studentsabroad.state.gov/emergencies/arrestedabroad.php

See anything in there regarding the right to obtain evidence?

Aren't they supposed to look into violations of the law against Americans in foreign lands?

Again, what specifically what did they didn't do?

What do you suppose they are supposed to do for people in Amanda's situation?

See link above.

It's in her note, which was published in the on November 22nd. I used that as an example it was available to the public because I recalled it off the top of my head. If a British reporter could get their hands on it, an American Embassy official certainly could have too.

Again, based on U.S., Italian and international laws, what was supposed to be done by U.S. Consular officers?

 

[Poppy1016]

The consular agents were helpless. The lawyers and judges should have ended this farce early on.

 

[Alt+F4]

If they visited Amanda in her jail cell before she appeared before Judge Matteini, they would have known she had not yet seen a lawyer, in fact, that she had been interrogated, hit and arrested without having access to a lawyer. If they did not visit her in her jail cell immediately upon her arrest, then shame on them. It is not the defendant's duty to keep everyone notified of these circumstances, especially when she is locked up. The Perugians should have notified the consulate and the consul should have visited Amanda, in short order.

How the heck would U.S. Consular officers be able to visit her immediately upon arrest? Do they read minds?

Read this:

http://extras.seattlepi.com/pdf/amandaknox_cable.pdf

The U.S. Embassy in Rome was notified about her detention on November 6, 2007 and notified about her arrest on November 9. Yikes, the U.S. Consular officers visitied her even before her own father did.

 

[Mary_H]

Hi Mary, I know my ideas of the case are rather simplistic. Just have basic ideas as to what was wrong in this case. Starting with the case being closed before it started. That started the whole mess. The failure to record the interrogation was purposeful and ridiculous. Amanda was a naiive kid and acted inappropriately and spoke way too much. A lawer would have prevented this. No evidence ever put Amanda in the murder room. That to me is the case in a nutshell. I look forward to the day this wrong is righted.

Poppy, I don't think your ideas are simplistic. The fact is, this is a simple case and you just described some of the reasons why. I think it is very sad that Perugian law enforcement and judiciary were able to use the media to control so many people's minds about the situation. It really makes you wonder what percentage of the population is able to question and analyze information.

 

[Mary_H]

How the heck would U.S. Consular officers be able to visit her immediately upon arrest? Do they read minds?

Read this:

http://extras.seattlepi.com/pdf/amandaknox_cable.pdf

The U.S. Embassy in Rome was notified about her detention on November 6, 2007 and her arrest on November 9.

What's it got to do with reading minds? They knew on the 6th that she had been detained. Why did they wait 6 days to visit her? And where is the report of what they learned when they visited her?

 

[Alt+F4]

What's it got to do with reading minds?

You said they that U.S. Consular officers should have been able to visit with her immediately after arrest. How were they supposed to do that immediately? Wasn't she arrested before 6am?

They knew on the 6th that she had been detained. Why did they wait 6 days to visit her?

Was waiting 6 days unsual for Americans arrested in Italy in 2007? Evidence?

And where is the report of what they learned when they visited her?

Ask her or her family. But I think it's kind of funny asking for a report to prove what happend on this event when you're perfectly ok with claiming innocence without access to any of the reports/transcripts from the trial...sans one.

 

[Poppy1016]

Alt, you are quite capable of better rebuttals then just "cite" or " evidence "

 

[Mary_H]

You said they that U.S. Consular officers should have been able to visit with her immediately after arrest. How were they supposed to do that immediately?

How long does it take to get to Perugia from Rome?

Was waiting 6 days unsual for Americans arrested in Italy in 2007? Evidence?

All I know is that if I were a consulate officer and a young American woman college student with no history of crime had been arrested for a rape/murder, my curiosity would certainly be piqued, especially if I were familiar with the culture of the local legal system.

Ask her or her family. But I think it's kind of funny asking for a report to prove this event when you're perfectly ok with claiming innocence without have any access to any of reports/transcripts from the trial...sans one.

Innocence is a given. The prosecution claimed guilt, but failed to prove it, in the midst of a whole lot of monkey business. The appeals are rapidly revealing the weaknesses of the case.

I would not expect Amanda or her family to have the report taken by the consulate officer. I find it interesting that whatever the officer found out is not part of the public record.

 

[Alt+F4]

Alt, you are quite capable of better rebuttals then just "cite" or " evidence "

Thanks Poppy but on a skeptics forum it's the person making the argument that needs to present the evidence, not the person contesting it.

 

[Poppy1016]

My appologies Alt, it just gets frustrating watching this simple case be solo over analyzed. I feel the information supplied should have stopped this case from ever starting. And I'm hoping that common sense will finally set AK and RK free. If anyone can prove to me that AK and RS were in Merediths room that fateful night, I'll gladly change my opinion on this case.

 

[Alt+F4]

How long does it take to get to Perugia from Rome?

Can you tell us when the embassy was notified after Amanda's pre-6am arrest, who contacted them and what their initial response was?

All I know is that if I were a consulate officer and a young American woman college student with no history of crime had been arrested for a rape/murder, my curiosity would certainly be piqued, especially if I were familiar with the culture of the local legal system.

Again, is there any evidence that Amanda was treated any differently than other American arrested in Italy in 2007? How you would have acted as a consulate officer at that time and place is of no significance.

Innocence is a given. The prosecution claimed guilt, but failed to prove it, in the midst of a whole lot of monkey business. The appeals are rapidly revealing the weaknesses of the case.

This has nothing to do with the job of the the U.S. State Department or the U.S. Consular officers in Italy.

I would not expect Amanda or her family to have the report taken by the consulate officer.

Why not?

I find it interesting that whatever the officer found out is not part of the public record.

Find out. If you're curious file a Freedom of Information request, since this informtion isn't classified you will probably get it (though it might take awhile - like the legal system in Italy).

 

[Alt+F4]

My appologies Alt, it just gets frustrating watching this simple case be solo over analyzed. I feel the information supplied should have stopped this case from ever starting. And I'm hoping that common sense will finally set AK and RK free. If anyone can prove to me that AK and RS were in Merediths room that fateful night, I'll gladly change my opinion on this case.

Well I will agree with you that, at least on this forum, it is over analyzed, I don't however agreee that it's a simple case.