Conservatives, under what conditions would you allow universal coverage?

Jump through those hoops then to prove your point. Most people get healthcare insurance from their empoyers.
 
Nursedan said:
Then get a job that provides insurance or make enough money to insure yourself privately. Have you not considered this as an option?
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that might fix travis' problem, but what about the other millions of americans that have no insurance?
you folks just don't get it.
countries that give universal coverage pay a lot less per person to do it.
americans with coverage, would pay less and extend coverage to EVERYONE.
your insane fear of the eeeevils of socialism is costing you more.
don't you care about the bottom line?
 
Nursedan said:
Jump through those hoops then to prove your point. Most people get healthcare insurance from their empoyers.
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And how good that insurance actually is isn't really in the average person's control. I work for an exceptionally wealthy and profitable healthcare corporation. Our own employee health insurance is a third-rate crap plans. They want to save money so the choices are very limited, and the employee contributions if you have a dependent are quadruple what the individual plans cost. The idea is to force all the employees to get their kids put on their spouse's plan instead--which doesn't work if the spouse's company is trying the same thing. We are healthcare industry, and we don't even have good healthcare!
 
bikerdruid said:
that might fix travis' problem, but what about the other millions of americans that have no insurance?
you folks just don't get it.
countries that give universal coverage pay a lot less per person to do it.
americans with coverage, would pay less and extend coverage to EVERYONE.
your insane fear of the eeeevils of socialism is costing you more.
don't you care about the bottom line?
Click to expand...

Dude, just do what I did and get a job that offers health coverage.
 
Nursedan said:
Dude, just do what I did and get a job that offers health coverage.
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I think you're being sarcastic, but in case you aren't, there's been an issue with available jobs in America. You may have heard about it.
 
aggle-rithm said:
If you get such a bill, here is the conversation you have with the hospital:

Billing dept: So, can you pay the $800,000 dollars?
You: No. I'll pay you $100 a month.
Billing dept: Can't you put it on a credit card or something?
You: No. I don't have that much credit.
Billing dept: Well, how about liquidating all your assets, and sending the money to us?
You: Hmmm...no, I like my idea better. $100 a month.
Billing dept: *sigh* OK...

My wife had such a conversation with the hospital after we had a catastrophic medical event about ten years ago. After she paid $100 a month for about a year, the hospital wrote the balance off.
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The interest alone on $800K is ~$50K per year so you are paying 0.1% of the interest and not even touching the principle. As I said before just because the US system allows people to leach like this doesn’t mean the treatment was free. SOMEONE is still coughing up the money to pay that bill.

Under universal systems there is a methodology for who pays, but in the US system no such methodology exists so the costs end up being paid by whoever they can get to pay.
 
TraneWreck said:
I think you're being sarcastic, but in case you aren't, there's been an issue with available jobs in America. You may have heard about it.
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I worked for Starbucks for a few years. I didn't make a lot of money but I did get full health coverage even working part time. There are other jobs like this. If people made their own well being a priority they would get a job (at least in the interim between better jobs) that offers health coverage, but people don't do that because it's too easy to get state funded healthcare paid for by others.

If you don't like your position in life, change it. Unless of course you believe that millions of Americans are invalids who can't help themselves. I tend to think this is true from your comments.
 
Nursedan said:
I worked for Starbucks for a few years. I didn't make a lot of money but I did get full health coverage even working part time. There are other jobs like this. If people made their own well being a priority they would get a job (at least in the interim between better jobs) that offers health coverage, but people don't do that because it's too easy to get state funded healthcare paid for by others.

If you don't like your position in life, change it. Unless of course you believe that millions of Americans are invalids who can't help themselves. I tend to think this is true from your comments.
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you feel that that is the answer for all americans?
perhaps the rumours of 2 digit unemployment in the u.s. are false.
so, according to you, all americans who have no coverage should just get a job that provides coverage.
this is brilliant! why did no one think of this before?
now, everyone in america can have medical insurance....you, sir, deserve the nobel peace prize!
 
Nursedan said:
I worked for Starbucks for a few years. I didn't make a lot of money but I did get full health coverage even working part time. There are other jobs like this. If people made their own well being a priority they would get a job (at least in the interim between better jobs) that offers health coverage, but people don't do that because it's too easy to get state funded healthcare paid for by others.

If you don't like your position in life, change it. Unless of course you believe that millions of Americans are invalids who can't help themselves. I tend to think this is true from your comments.
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Do you know how rare that is?
 
Nursedan said:
I worked for Starbucks for a few years. I didn't make a lot of money but I did get full health coverage even working part time. There are other jobs like this. If people made their own well being a priority they would get a job (at least in the interim between better jobs) that offers health coverage, but people don't do that because it's too easy to get state funded healthcare paid for by others.

If you don't like your position in life, change it. Unless of course you believe that millions of Americans are invalids who can't help themselves. I tend to think this is true from your comments.
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KoihimeNakamura said:
Do you know how rare that is?
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I wish that on this skeptical forum we weren't always in the position of pointing out the difference between anecdote and an actual study of the issue, but to reiterate KN's point, look at the statistics on this score. Provide some sort of reasoned, substantiated argument that such a situation is available for the 46.3 million Americans without health insurance (that's before dealing with the underinsured and people who think they have solid insurance but whose claims will be denied).
 
Nursedan said:
Dude, just do what I did and get a job that offers health coverage.
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This is one of the most idiotic things about healthcare in the US. We create arbitrary risk pools based on who your employer is. Its makes no sense at all. Why not create one giant risk pool?

What would that cost? I don't know. What I do know is that if me and my employer didn't have to pay for my health care, I could absorb an 80% federal income tax increase(the total cost of my premiums = 80% of my Fed income tax). I make slightly more than median income.

So, for me, something less than or equal to an 80% tax increase would fulfill the "doesn't cost more" requirement. Doing the math was very enlightening.
 
I can't even remember the last time I interviewed for a job that even had an employee health plan. I got a job at one place, a few years back, that terminated their employee plan the month I started working there. They said it was get rid of the health plan or relocate to Canada which at that time was competitive because of the exchange rate. In fact the vast majority of our local employers offer no health insurance. They say their profit margins are too thin to do so and with a local unemployment rate just shy of 20% no one is in any position to negotiate.

Bottom line is that when people are desperate for jobs the people offering the jobs have no incentive to have health insurance plans.
 
Darat said:
What percentage of jobs in the USA provide healthcare as part of the remuneration package?
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As of 2002, according to this, about 88% of american workplaces offered health insurance, but only about 77% of the workers at those workplaces were eligible for it (through having been there long enough and from not being part-time etc).
 
Well around these parts a workplace with a health insurance package is rare like a white buffalo. Heck, with 20% unemployment people are willing to work for less than minimum wage.
 
Travis said:
I can't even remember the last time I interviewed for a job that even had an employee health plan. I got a job at one place, a few years back, that terminated their employee plan the month I started working there. They said it was get rid of the health plan or relocate to Canada which at that time was competitive because of the exchange rate. In fact the vast majority of our local employers offer no health insurance. They say their profit margins are too thin to do so and with a local unemployment rate just shy of 20% no one is in any position to negotiate.

Bottom line is that when people are desperate for jobs the people offering the jobs have no incentive to have health insurance plans.
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Then why don't you just become rich, and you wouldn't have to worry about such things...

>.>
 
I knew my plan of "not getting rich" was ill-conceived.
 
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