Lord Emsworth
Je ne suis pas une de vos élèves
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It is easier than you might think. There's a tag for that: (Quote me)" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>
Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.
- Thread starter DOC
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It is easier than you might think. There's a tag for that: (Quote me)" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>
TSR
Illuminator
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode#yt , where the "eJFWSTD8vpQ" is the ID (the part after the v= in a tubey video)
so in the example [ yt ]eJFWSTD8vpQ[ /yt ] without the spaces embeds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJFWSTD8vpQ which is to say
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John Jones
Penultimate Amazing
Still nothing.
Gandalfs Beard
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Thanks TSR and LE. It's too late for me to edit my post with the YT in. But maybe a friendly mod will stopped by and fixed it for me.
GB
GB
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-_-
I'm very confused about the very first comment on this thread.
OP cited opinions of an author as examples of validity of the bible? That's what I gathered, but I'm at a lack of attention span at the moment.
Anyway, when I was arguing with my mother on FB about the interpretation of the rapture she posted something that this thread reminded me of, though, I'm not sure which is from the NT or the OT. It seemed relevant enough to share.
Direct cut & paste:
"Here are a few scientific examples that show that the bible can be trusted. Isaiah 40:22 says, "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers." Long before any scientist ever discovered that the earth is round, the bible revealed this truth. Numbers 31:21-23 says, "Then Eleazar the priest said to the soldiers who had gone into battle, 'This is the requirement of the law that the Lord gave Moses: Gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, lead and anything else that can withstand fire must be put through the fire, and then it will be clean. But it must also be purified with the water of cleansing. And whatever cannot withstand fire must be put though that water." This verse was written in about 2000 BC. However, people didn't know about the importance of sterilization until the 1800's. And my 3rd example is in Revelation 21:21. It says, "The 12 gates were 12 pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass." For thousands of years no person new what transparent glass was. However, people now put it in between the panes of the windows of aircraft windshields so that flying birds won't break the glass when they hit the windshields. Transparent gold makes windows very strong. You can read about it by Googleing it. This verse was written around 70-80 AD."
I'm very confused about the very first comment on this thread.
OP cited opinions of an author as examples of validity of the bible? That's what I gathered, but I'm at a lack of attention span at the moment.
Anyway, when I was arguing with my mother on FB about the interpretation of the rapture she posted something that this thread reminded me of, though, I'm not sure which is from the NT or the OT. It seemed relevant enough to share.
Direct cut & paste:
"Here are a few scientific examples that show that the bible can be trusted. Isaiah 40:22 says, "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers." Long before any scientist ever discovered that the earth is round, the bible revealed this truth. Numbers 31:21-23 says, "Then Eleazar the priest said to the soldiers who had gone into battle, 'This is the requirement of the law that the Lord gave Moses: Gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, lead and anything else that can withstand fire must be put through the fire, and then it will be clean. But it must also be purified with the water of cleansing. And whatever cannot withstand fire must be put though that water." This verse was written in about 2000 BC. However, people didn't know about the importance of sterilization until the 1800's. And my 3rd example is in Revelation 21:21. It says, "The 12 gates were 12 pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass." For thousands of years no person new what transparent glass was. However, people now put it in between the panes of the windows of aircraft windshields so that flying birds won't break the glass when they hit the windshields. Transparent gold makes windows very strong. You can read about it by Googleing it. This verse was written around 70-80 AD."
X
Slide Rulez 4 Life
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Holy lurker!
Welcome!
And don't try to read the whole thread. You'll lose your sanity (just look at what happened to Akhenaten).
As far as your mother's "Evidence", it seems to be optimistic interpretations of carefully selected passages. For all of the, and especially the last one, be wary of using the English words in the text as evidence of anything. If a claim is being made off of a word or phrase (like "transparent glass"), go back to the earliest Greek texts. Some people here can read it and may be willing to help.
Welcome!
And don't try to read the whole thread. You'll lose your sanity (just look at what happened to Akhenaten).
As far as your mother's "Evidence", it seems to be optimistic interpretations of carefully selected passages. For all of the, and especially the last one, be wary of using the English words in the text as evidence of anything. If a claim is being made off of a word or phrase (like "transparent glass"), go back to the earliest Greek texts. Some people here can read it and may be willing to help.
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Welcome, Larechar.
It's not you, mate. It's the OP that was confused.
Almost 20,000 posts later and very little has changed.
As you become more familiar with the OP you'll realise that using other people's opinions in place of evidence is one of his less bizarre techniques.
One of my personal favourites is his use of an empty tomb that's never been discovered as evidence for Zombie Jeebus.
I think I saw some relevants wandering around in the thread a few months ago but some tigers came and chased them off.
Except that a circle ≠ a sphere. I'm pretty sure that the OT dudes saw the Earth as a flattish disc rather than as a nice oblate spheroid.
All they're talking about here is a ceremonial cleansing of objects that may have been defiled by contact with a dead body.
While it's reasonable that stone agers would have worked out that messing about with dead bodies (especially really, really, dead bodies) could cause health problems, it's a long stretch from that no-brainer to inferring a knowledge of germ theory.
A bit of a giveaway is the "water of cleansing" which is actually called "water of separation" in the original text. Water of separation is made from normal water and the ashes of a red heifer (and some magical incantations, of course). There's nothing scientifical about it.
I mean, "Hey guys, after you finish burying those 50,000 dead Midianites you might want to wash your hands" is hardly rocket science.
Using Revelation as an example of anything other than the dangers of eating mouldy rye and funny-looking mushrooms is a bit fraught.
In any case, I've got to wonder how the author of Revelation wrote about something thousands of years before anyone had ever seen such a thing. I suspect a translation "error".
Sound like rubbish to me. Gold can be incorporated into windshields for tinting purposes because one of its main properties is its extreme malleability. In other words, it can be made into extremely thin layers which are all but transparent, although no stronger than tissue paper. It's no big thing that the ancients were well aware of this property of gold, and indeed its one of the main reasons they liked it so much, but they certainly weren't making toughened glass out of it.
No matter how many times I read that verse, I can't see any mention of aircraft windows.
It's not you, mate. It's the OP that was confused.
Almost 20,000 posts later and very little has changed.
As you become more familiar with the OP you'll realise that using other people's opinions in place of evidence is one of his less bizarre techniques.
One of my personal favourites is his use of an empty tomb that's never been discovered as evidence for Zombie Jeebus.
I think I saw some relevants wandering around in the thread a few months ago but some tigers came and chased them off.
Except that a circle ≠ a sphere. I'm pretty sure that the OT dudes saw the Earth as a flattish disc rather than as a nice oblate spheroid.
All they're talking about here is a ceremonial cleansing of objects that may have been defiled by contact with a dead body.
While it's reasonable that stone agers would have worked out that messing about with dead bodies (especially really, really, dead bodies) could cause health problems, it's a long stretch from that no-brainer to inferring a knowledge of germ theory.
A bit of a giveaway is the "water of cleansing" which is actually called "water of separation" in the original text. Water of separation is made from normal water and the ashes of a red heifer (and some magical incantations, of course). There's nothing scientifical about it.
I mean, "Hey guys, after you finish burying those 50,000 dead Midianites you might want to wash your hands" is hardly rocket science.
Using Revelation as an example of anything other than the dangers of eating mouldy rye and funny-looking mushrooms is a bit fraught.
In any case, I've got to wonder how the author of Revelation wrote about something thousands of years before anyone had ever seen such a thing. I suspect a translation "error".
Sound like rubbish to me. Gold can be incorporated into windshields for tinting purposes because one of its main properties is its extreme malleability. In other words, it can be made into extremely thin layers which are all but transparent, although no stronger than tissue paper. It's no big thing that the ancients were well aware of this property of gold, and indeed its one of the main reasons they liked it so much, but they certainly weren't making toughened glass out of it.
No matter how many times I read that verse, I can't see any mention of aircraft windows.
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Thank you! I hope it's fun here.
I'm definitely not interested in that, but thank you. My mom's posts were off-topic, and ruined our debate; but somehow they found use here.
The Bible's validity isn't something I care about, but it's definitely a good BOOK with good tips on morals, and some info into the finer aspects of Spiritual Awareness [not to step on any religious toes, here], but still just a book.
The problem I have with religions and the like is the fake humility that's often prevalent.
And my lurkerness is due to the fact that I created an account, then forgot about this forum until today, so technically I'm just a late bloomer
But, back to the topic!
I'm definitely not interested in that, but thank you. My mom's posts were off-topic, and ruined our debate; but somehow they found use here.
The Bible's validity isn't something I care about, but it's definitely a good BOOK with good tips on morals, and some info into the finer aspects of Spiritual Awareness [not to step on any religious toes, here], but still just a book.
The problem I have with religions and the like is the fake humility that's often prevalent.
And my lurkerness is due to the fact that I created an account, then forgot about this forum until today, so technically I'm just a late bloomer
But, back to the topic!
Well, I'm not sure how to do that quote thing, but we're along the same train of thought about that. I was arguing against my mom.
The basic point I had with her also stands here.
"Why does it matter?"
The basic point I had with her also stands here.
"Why does it matter?"
There's a button at the bottom of every post that says "Quote"; click it and you'll quote that entire post. You can trim out what you're not responding to. If you want to quote multiple posts, click the button with the quotation mark (") for each post save the ultimate post, for that you use the "Quote" button as usual.
Posted By: kmortis
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X
Slide Rulez 4 Life
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Back to the topic indeed. I know I left it around here somewhere...
Honestly, if you just read the last dozen-or-so posts by DOC (and the replies to those posts), you'll have a solid grasp of the thread. DOC tends to repeat himself every 10 pages or so. Rather like a skipping record.
Edit to add (ETA):
On the bottom right hand side of each post box, you'll see 5 buttons.
The first one, "Edit", allows you to edit your post (be aware, you only have 2 hours). If you change anything significant (add/remove text), it's considered polite to leave a small note describing what you changed or indicate it some other way (for example, if you add text, preface it with "ETA").
The second button, "Link", has nothing to do with Zelda. Actually, I'm trying to be funny. I never played Zelda. Tried it at a friend's house once, and got frustrated and bored and never got past the first level. The button generates a pop-up box with an HTML link you the post.
The third button, "Quote", takes you to the post creation page, and will have the text from whatever you decided to quo9te already in place and formatted. If you wish to add quotes from other locations, there will be a button at the top to add the proper tags or you can do it yourself. The tags are" [ QUOTE ] (before text) and [ /QUOTE ] (after text). Type them in without the spaces.
The third button, which looks like quotation marks, is a magical little button. If you want to quote more than one post, click it on each post you with to quote. Then, on the last one, click "Quote" (or just go to "Post Reply" at the bottom of the page).
The fifth button is "Reply". It merely replies to a particular post. Which might make a difference depending on how you have the forum set to display on your computer.
Finally, I call your attention to the bottom left of the quote box. There are three buttons there. The check mark will allow you to nominate a post you think exhibits particularly good use of language. It will automatically generate a nomination post in the nominations thread, over in the Forum Community. The exclamation mark allows you to report a post you feel is in violation of the rules. Technically, you could report me for being off-topic in this reply. But that's a minor thing. Read the rules to know what is and is not allowed. The third button there allows you to quote the particular post in a personal message. It is also a handy way to quote nested posts.
Honestly, if you just read the last dozen-or-so posts by DOC (and the replies to those posts), you'll have a solid grasp of the thread. DOC tends to repeat himself every 10 pages or so. Rather like a skipping record.
Edit to add (ETA):
On the bottom right hand side of each post box, you'll see 5 buttons.
The first one, "Edit", allows you to edit your post (be aware, you only have 2 hours). If you change anything significant (add/remove text), it's considered polite to leave a small note describing what you changed or indicate it some other way (for example, if you add text, preface it with "ETA").
The second button, "Link", has nothing to do with Zelda. Actually, I'm trying to be funny. I never played Zelda. Tried it at a friend's house once, and got frustrated and bored and never got past the first level. The button generates a pop-up box with an HTML link you the post.
The third button, "Quote", takes you to the post creation page, and will have the text from whatever you decided to quo9te already in place and formatted. If you wish to add quotes from other locations, there will be a button at the top to add the proper tags or you can do it yourself. The tags are" [ QUOTE ] (before text) and [ /QUOTE ] (after text). Type them in without the spaces.
The third button, which looks like quotation marks, is a magical little button. If you want to quote more than one post, click it on each post you with to quote. Then, on the last one, click "Quote" (or just go to "Post Reply" at the bottom of the page).
The fifth button is "Reply". It merely replies to a particular post. Which might make a difference depending on how you have the forum set to display on your computer.
Finally, I call your attention to the bottom left of the quote box. There are three buttons there. The check mark will allow you to nominate a post you think exhibits particularly good use of language. It will automatically generate a nomination post in the nominations thread, over in the Forum Community. The exclamation mark allows you to report a post you feel is in violation of the rules. Technically, you could report me for being off-topic in this reply. But that's a minor thing. Read the rules to know what is and is not allowed. The third button there allows you to quote the particular post in a personal message. It is also a handy way to quote nested posts.
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Thank you very much for that!
Akhenaten said:
Irony Alert!
Actually, that chapter, and only that chapter in the bible, unbeknownst to my mom, has significant spiritual meaning to me; if you believe in that kind of thing. I do, but I don't omit the possibility that I could be wrong and have been living a lie ever since I believe I came upon a form of "Enlightenment," spiritually speaking.
One of those unprovable things haha
ETA
Akhenaten said:
I do, too, but I'm thinking that was the point my mom was trying to portray. She's very religious, or, "Spiritual," self-proclaimed by herself. I find that proclamation usually stems from some form of Ego, though. Our debates usually end in some form of what you've read from her, and her thinking she's proven some huge conspiracy that will make me change my ways back to religion.
ETA
I just realized I used the same format for two sentences back to back. How redundant. [usually... some form of...]
Oh well.
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Lothian
should be banned
I recall the devil took Jesus up a very high mountain where he could see the whole of the world.......
Scrape away at any gold nugget in the bible and you will find it is actually iron pyrite.
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Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Akhenaten said:
Irony Alert!
Actually, that chapter, and only that chapter in the bible, unbeknownst to my mom, has significant spiritual meaning to me; if you believe in that kind of thing. I do, but I don't omit the possibility that I could be wrong and have been living a lie ever since I believe I came upon a form of "Enlightenment," spiritually speaking.
One of those unprovable things haha
Here's a special treat for you, from 200 pages ago:
Revelation 21:15-16
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GrandMasterFox
Illuminator
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Not to mention the whole "everyone thought the earth was flat until Columbus" is a flat out myth.
Also, the bible makes numberable mentions of stuff like the pillars of the earth or that the sun revoles around the earth or that the earth existed before the sun (plant life included...)
Not to mention curing diseases by washing in the blood of birds.
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Either everything had shrunk by the time Revelation was written or the devil knows about higher mountains than teh angels, because poor old John could only see a single city when he went a'tripping with them:
Revelation 21:10
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.
No Place so Sacred from such Fops is barr'd,
Nor is Paul's Church more safe than Paul's Church-yard:
Nay, fly to Altars; there they'll talk you dead;
For Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread.
- Alexander Pope
Nor is Paul's Church more safe than Paul's Church-yard:
Nay, fly to Altars; there they'll talk you dead;
For Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread.
- Alexander Pope
I'm excited. :]
It's sad, though, because I can't remember all the different meanings I'd researched about the city.
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Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Depending on where you are, you might be able to just go and have a look at it instead of researching. Last I heard they were planning to rebuild it in a paddock in England somewhere.
I'm definitely in the US. Is that a controversial verse or something? I wasn't aware anyone had any relations to it.
First time I heard of it I was reading some article from the 30's or so about the Law of Attraction.
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Not controversial, but a reference to a hymn that may not be so well known in the US as it is in the Old Dart and the rest of the Empire Commonwealth.
And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green
And was the holy lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark Satanic mills
Bring me my bow of burning gold
Bring me my arrows of desire
Bring me my spears o'clouds unfold
Bring me my chariot of fire
I will not cease from mental fight
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
'Til we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.
- William Blake
Walk upon England's mountains green
And was the holy lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark Satanic mills
Bring me my bow of burning gold
Bring me my arrows of desire
Bring me my spears o'clouds unfold
Bring me my chariot of fire
I will not cease from mental fight
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
'Til we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.
- William Blake
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