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Support Weiner Day

thaiboxerken said:
Lee's story lasted a blink of an eye. Ask most people today who Christopher Lee is and most won't know who you are talking about. Lee did not make major news.
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NY Times

ABC

CBS

CNN

Do I have to keep going or can some of you admit you're being apologists just because he's a democrat the same as you and I?
 
So comments from 4-5 JREF members are an accurate reflection of the feelings of the U.S. but 7 separate articles from news organizations and every opinion in the comments section is fluff?

Forget it. You guys keep telling yourselves it's ok when our team does it but deplorable when their team does. I'd hoped for better here.
 
PGH said:
So comments from 4-5 JREF members are an accurate reflection of the feelings of the U.S. but 7 separate articles from news organizations and every opinion in the comments section is fluff?

Forget it. You guys keep telling yourselves it's ok when our team does it but deplorable when their team does. I'd hoped for better here.
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Well, you need to make up your mind. You're accusing people on this forum of hypocrisy based on the actions and statements of people not on the forum.
 
Cleon said:
Well, you need to make up your mind. You're accusing people on this forum of hypocrisy based on the actions and statements of people not on the forum.
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That is ABSOLUTELY fair and accurate criticism.
 
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tyr_13 said:
It could be, but around here you'll find that a lot of times it simply isn't.
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I beg to differ. Simply because members of this forum tend to be more educated and rational thinkers does not mean they are less subject to their own biases, and politics tends to create extremely strong biases. Simply read some of the pre-admission posts in the other Weiner thread to see how strong the biases are - on both sides.

tyr_13 said:
The things you name are actually crimes. Carrying on cyber affairs isn't.
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Irrelevant.

tyr_13 said:
What is more, lefties don't actually tend to believe that being a 'moral' person about sexuality has anything to do with being a 'moral' person in government.
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Do lefties feel the same way about lying to the media in an attempt to cover it up? That DOES have to do with being a 'moral' person in government and is the real story here.
 
Jalok said:
Morals are subjective. I think in cases like we are talking about it is a matter of judging someone against their own values rather than any imposed by an outside group. My own feeling when it comes to these particular types of thing, cheating and such, is I really don't give a damn I'm not the spouse. Reps make a big deal out of 'traditional' this and that, they get their votes by appealing to people who want those 'traditions' to return. So it's a big deal when a Rep is exposed not following his self-professed morality. Dems run on different things. I'd fully expect a Dem who was exposed as a closet racist/homophobe to have similar issues.*

For the armed robbery bit: sure, I can see looking further down on the gun control suspect than the NRA member, but that's after already looking down on them for doing the deed in the first place.

jalok


* Stereotypes for purpose of example.
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So, in essense, you do hold Democrats to a lower standard but it is justified because they have lower standards for themselves. Sorry, I'm just not a fan of moral relativism. I apply my concept of morality to everyone else as equally as I can (knowing of course that I have my biases just like everyone else).
 
I think the right is pushing this because Democrats like Weiner bizarrely have heterosexual sex scandals, not the standard gay ones
 
JohnnyG said:
So, in essense, you do hold Democrats to a lower standard but it is justified because they have lower standards for themselves. Sorry, I'm just not a fan of moral relativism. I apply my concept of morality to everyone else as equally as I can (knowing of course that I have my biases just like everyone else).
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Lower, higher, depends on where you stand. I hold them, for what little I actually care about the issue (not much), to their own self proclaimed standard. My own standard is disapproval of people who cheat in relationships, but it is none of my business who others tweet, tap feet, or run away to some clandestine vacation with. But as an observer, I do love it when someone gets caught saying one thing while getting caught doing another, and I'm not the only one. My morality is not better than yours, nor yours better than mine.

jalok

ETA I think we may be going away from the purpose of the thread so this will probable be my last entry here.
 
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TraneWreck said:
Yes, please, PLEASE run on that.

Nothing convinces independents like a bunch of ghoulish old white guys spending all their time babbling about someone else's cock.
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Hey, if the republickers want to play with other guys' equiptment, it's cool by me! Let them eat c....................ake!!!:)
 
JohnnyG said:
I beg to differ. Simply because members of this forum tend to be more educated and rational thinkers does not mean they are less subject to their own biases, and politics tends to create extremely strong biases. Simply read some of the pre-admission posts in the other Weiner thread to see how strong the biases are - on both sides.
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That isn't what I argued.

Irrelevant.
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Wait, what? An action being an actual crime is irrelevant to how the person should be treated who committed the act? Please clarify as it appears you're equating armed robbery with cyber affairs which is a position so ridiculous that I don't want to accuse you of holding it. Obviously a person who commits a crime should be punished for it within the bounds of the justice system and a person who did not should not be subject to the same penalties. Even if we are just talking about social repercussions it's still ridiculous to want the same social penalties for each.

Do lefties feel the same way about lying to the media in an attempt to cover it up? That DOES have to do with being a 'moral' person in government and is the real story here.
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Seeing as he was lying about his personal sex life, the subject we can most expect any given person to lie about, I don't really care that much. The actual affairs speak to a lack of good judgment, but really, lying to the media about it? The media isn't a jury or an ethics panel (hahahahaha) so lying about his sex life holds for me about the same weight as lying about his fishing prowess. Now if he had lied about governmental or legal affairs, I'd be much more upset. If he showed a pattern of lying about more things, yes, this would speak to a lack of character in general. People have their vices and not all of them overlap with governmental acumen. If he had been doing this with say pages, or abusing power, it would have mattered more.

Of course he also came clean relatively quickly, and apologized. But I'm beginning to think that your political bias is what is important to your line of reasoning, and him being a Dem is a much stronger reason for your critical stance on him than anything he's actually done.
 
Wait - didn't Christopher Lee play Saruman?

At any rate, I wrote an article on my Facebook about Anthony Weiner in July 2010 because I was incredibly impressed with his views. It didn't matter whether or not he was doinking the entire universe at the time. If I had found out he was, that wouldn't have changed my views on him because his sexuality *does not compromise my political views*.

If his dangle compromises you... Well, that's kind of odd. I don't wonder what any other politician does in their sexbasket. And yes, I made that word up because it rather encompasses the ridiculousity.
 
Oh, btw, the number of 'attending' has gone to 113. I guess some people do want to support Weiner.
 
tyr_13 said:
Wait, what? An action being an actual crime is irrelevant to how the person should be treated who committed the act? Please clarify as it appears you're equating armed robbery with cyber affairs which is a position so ridiculous that I don't want to accuse you of holding it. Obviously a person who commits a crime should be punished for it within the bounds of the justice system and a person who did not should not be subject to the same penalties. Even if we are just talking about social repercussions it's still ridiculous to want the same social penalties for each.
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I wasn't equating armed robbery and cyber affairs, that would be silly. I was wondering if the double standard between left and right applied in the both directions; if those who give the right less leeway on thier key platform issues would do similar for the left on their key issues. Jalok understood the analogy and to his/her credit was consistent in applying it both ways.


tyr_13 said:
Of course he also came clean relatively quickly, and apologized. But I'm beginning to think that your political bias is what is important to your line of reasoning, and him being a Dem is a much stronger reason for your critical stance on him than anything he's actually done.
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He didn't have a choice, facts were coming out that prove he was lying. I do tend to lean slightly left on social issues and I can't stand the religous right; I do think his actions reveal some serious character flaws and brushing them away because the other political party claims moral superiority makes no sense.
 
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JohnnyG said:
I wasn't equating armed robbery and cyber affairs, that would be silly. I was wondering if the double standard between left and right applied in the both directions; if those who give the right less leeway on thier key platform issues would do similar for the left on their key issues. Jalok understood the analogy and to his/her credit was consistent in applying it both ways.
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And armed robbery was the only one you could think of? How can a 'double standard' be applied both ways?

Again, I don't especially care personally what legal sexual activities a rep is engaged in, left or right. But when countering arguments put forth by someone as to why they should lead, and they say they should lead because of morals they apply to their personal life, it's useful to point out that not only is it irrelevant, but it's also often not true. If someone isn't making that argument it the first place, one can't counter it with those points. It isn't a double standard to argue against what the Republicans tend to do but not the Democrats, because they aren't the ones arguing it. 'Traditional values' isn't a plank in the Democratic platform, so there is no need to argue against it. No double standard. Again, it seems you fail to understand the objection because it isn't about the personal life morals.


He didn't have a choice, facts were coming out that prove he was lying. I do tend to lean slightly left on social issues and I can't stand the religous right; I do think his actions reveal some serious character flaws and brushing them away because the other political party claims moral superiority makes no sense.
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I'm not brushing them away because the other party claims moral superiority, I'm brushing it aside because his party and I don't consider it important. If they did, then it would be more important, but still not resignation worthy. It would only be important to counter the argument of claim to better government because of traditional values.
 
RemieV said:
Oh, btw, the number of 'attending' has gone to 113. I guess some people do want to support Weiner.
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I wish you the best in your efforts. If Weiner sticks around, fighting the Dem push to drive him out, he'll be the gift that keeps on giving to Republican candidates everywhere.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Lee's story lasted a blink of an eye. Ask most people today who Christopher Lee is and most won't know who you are talking about. Lee did not make major news.

snip
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In all fairness, 'Lee' is a boring name that is easy to forget. On the other hand, 'Weiner' is fun to just keep repeating over and over. A good weiner story can go on forever.
 
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