Merged Cold Fusion Claims

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Craig B said:
Emet

I most certainly was making a joke. Thanks.
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No problem. :) Even with or without smilies, we all often misread posts. If one doesn't know the poster, it can be hard to tell if it's a Poe.

BTW, I thought your post was funny... I am easily amused. :D

And you should be able to post links, now.

Cheers.
 
attaboy

I wasn't expressing an opinion of any kind by making this post. I was just pointing out to the forum that Rossi is now not the only one making claim to having discovered some kind of system capable of lenr. Please note, however, that this time it came from a US Govenment laboratory. I would think this lends a lot more credibility to the report than if it came from a private inventor such as Rossi even though he is supported by prominent scientists such as Focardi.
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That is the point of view I appreciate.

When I clicked on your link the most recent post pertained to a blog post by one of the 5 professors who are studying the e-cat at U of Bologna.
 
Craig B said:
HoverBoarder

Http://pesn.com/2011/06/07/9501841_Patent_Office_Forces_E-Cat_Self-Destruct_Capability/

Have no fear! All is not lost! The fusionistas have dreamed up an ingenious way of overcoming the wicked heartlessness and bureaucratic intransigence of the Patent Office:

Perhaps another way of insuring competitors do not steal market share if they obtained his secrets, would be for him to offer pre-orders of E-Cat units. A series of additional demonstrations could be held once the one megawatt plant in Xanthi is launched. These demos could entice millions of people to make preorders.
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I really like the use of "entice". Is it possible that a small deposit could be "enticed" from the pockets and purses of these millions of preorderers? Dear me! This isn't even a new, clever kind of scam. It looks as if it's going to develop into an old-fashioned plain-vanilla "advance fee" rip-off.

UK residents may wish to consult http://www.actionfraud.org.uk/node/290
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Well he has to keep milking this for as long as possible, and there are plenty of people who are willing to give him a whole lot of money (and many already have).

If Rossi actually wanted to have a way to destroy the intineral parts, he could just use a mechanical device do the job instead of trying to make a "safe self-destruct system." Which is just another predictable stalling tactic, and is very similar to what Steorn did.

Rossi's last 'miracle energy invention' was suddenly "all destroyed in a warehouse fire;" only after Rossi got a bunch of money out of it from a US agency of course. His petro-dragon scam did not produce one drop of useable oil but made him a lot of money while Italy was left with millions of Euros in costs cleaning up the hazardous waste sites that Rossi left behind.

There is no reason to believe that this time will be different for Rossi.

Rossi has plenty of ways to demonstrate that his invention is not a complete scam in ways that would not give away any of his claimed "secrets," but he has so far refused to do that for obvious reasons (it doesn't actually work).


There are really only two questions left on this:

1) How long will Rossi be able to keep this going with new excuses and delays that will allow him to collect as many "pre orders" as possible.

2) What kind of "horrible disaster" will Rossi come up with that will prevent him from distributing any of his products but keep all of the money that he has made off of this?
 
So he's going to make a safe, self destruct?





To get the money out...





Because he defrauded...






I'll just sit back over here quietly now.
 
Craig B said:
Horatius

Can we really expect Rossi to bow to the demands of these perpetrators of crimes against humanity at the Patent Office? As pointed out by the cryofusionists:

H t t p : // pesn.com/2011/06/07/9501841_Patent_Office_Forces_E-Cat_Self-Destruct_Capability/



Wow! And also allowing children to die of cancer, because Rossi's going to spend his profits on helping child cancer sufferers.



Or is all that just "flimflam" in your pathologically sceptical stealing food from the plates of children opinion.
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I can only repeat what i said earlier in this thread: The argument of a conspiracy going on against CF/LENR/whatever is as stupid as it can get. Because companies are not charities. There are out there to make profit. None of them would be so stupid to continue burning expensive fuels to produce, lets say, electricity, when they could use stuff like these e-cat's which would allow them to produce electricity much much cheaper, while they still would be able to sell it for the same price.

In other words: If there would be anything valid about that CF crap, they would be all over it already and using it on a massive scale. Not to save mankind, but simply to make much more profit.

And that applies to any "free energy" claim out there. They would simply "buy" the inventor(s), pay them virtually as much bucks as they want, and use that stuff.

The best evidence that these things simply do not work is the lack of companies using such "technology". But of course that is something that goes right over the heads of these conspiracy nutters.

Greetings,

Chris
 
Dancing David

And you qill note that this was discussed already in the thread. It also is not what Rossi is claiming, in this letter, condierable heat is used prior to the advent of the hydrongen, they are not assuming that it is NOT a chemical reaction. This as a chemical reaction has been discussed.

Rossi's claim is a little different.
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They are most definitely assuming that it is not a chemical reaction.

A scientist observing a closed chemical system would never say something like:

On the fourth day H2 gas was again added at 100psi and the system rose by
50C to 580C and again stayed at the elevated temperature indefinitely.
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Dancing David said:
A typo, so where did they say it was non chemical?

This is your statement about them, I am asking for clarity, they did not say LENR, did they state the process as being non chemical?

ETA:
This is the original source:
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg47437.html

In the original they do not say LENR or nuclear at all. Or chemical or non chemical.

It is apparently an email about something that happened at AMES

Soooo we have no verification that the researcher at AMES felt it was nuclear despite the associations given by the blog and possibly you.

:)
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I've now read the email and you're right they don't commit to kind of effect they've observed. Having been both an academic and industrial researcher most of my career, I don't find it surprising that they did not commit. Doing this is not that uncommon. In this case it may amount to not sticking their necks out any more than they have to. The main thing to me is that yet another excess heat effect similar to Rossi's has occurred and I find this to be very good news. I hope you're glad as well, DD.
 
Dancing David said:
A typo, so where did they say it was non chemical?

This is your statement about them, I am asking for clarity, they did not say LENR, did they state the process as being non chemical?

ETA:
This is the original source:
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg47437.html

In the original they do not say LENR or nuclear at all. Or chemical or non chemical.

It is apparently an email about something that happened at AMES

Soooo we have no verification that the researcher at AMES felt it was nuclear despite the associations given by the blog and possibly you.

:)
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Was this researcher actually at AMES? When I read it, I see an experiment done using material obtained from AMES, but not done by an AMES researcher.

It also sounds like a very poorly controlled experiment:

The system was heated with a band heater to high temperature. There was no
controller. A rheostat was set at an arbitrary position and the system comes
to a an arbitrary temperature.
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Again, without properly controlled input and real calorimetry, this is not evidence of anything other than a poorly conducted experiment.
 
Craig B said:
Horatius

Can we really expect Rossi to bow to the demands of these perpetrators of crimes against humanity at the Patent Office? As pointed out by the cryofusionists:

H t t p : // pesn.com/2011/06/07/9501841_Patent_Office_Forces_E-Cat_Self-Destruct_Capability/



Wow! And also allowing children to die of cancer, because Rossi's going to spend his profits on helping child cancer sufferers.



Or is all that just "flimflam" in your pathologically sceptical stealing food from the plates of children opinion.
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"OH! The poor, helpless, CHILDREN will be harmed!!
We must act Immediately to prevent this ATROCITY and GENOCIDE!!
[/Bleeding Heart Moron]:rolleyes:

Clickable link here.:)

"O' What a tangled web we weave..."

Rossi certainly is confabulating for all he's worth.. with plenty of willing, brown-nosing help from the Gullible-/-Wishful-Thinking Contingent.

ETA: This is a perfect example of the Conjurors Misdirection ploy "Look at THIS hand, the one moving rapidly with something shiny in it; ignore the other - nothing to SEE there!".

I will be waiting to see this house-O-cards implode.

Cheers,

Dave
 
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phunk said:
The system was heated with a band heater to high temperature. There was no
controller. A rheostat was set at an arbitrary position and the system comes
to a an arbitrary temperature.
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Again, without properly controlled input and real calorimetry, this is not evidence of anything other than a poorly conducted experiment.
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Wait a second... Did they really just admit "Well, we did something, and something else happened, but we have no idea what we really did"?

You know, i can set my stove's dial to an arbitrary setting, and lo-and-behold, it will get to an arbitrary temperature! What a surprise!

Greetings,

Chris
 
I am suddenly thinking that self destruct process will be verrrry fiddly.

* he can pretend he need more time to come up the self destruct method
* he can pretend fabricating the eCAt with self destruct take more time
* if he deliver something he can pretend the fiddly self destruct misfired

And with one swoop he has the perfect excuse to 1) give him more time for more scheme if he need 2) he can outright explain why the first delivery *if he ever think of doing one* will not work.

Remember those heater which did not work after the fire ? Well he directly built in the excuse for not work in his next scheme. Pure genius.
 
Crawdaddy said:
Dancing David



They are most definitely assuming that it is not a chemical reaction.

A scientist observing a closed chemical system would never say something like:
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And the source is what?
A letter about research at AMES, it is not the paper or data from AMES, so it is hard to verify at this point, is it not?
:)
 
attaboy said:
I've now read the email and you're right they don't commit to kind of effect they've observed. Having been both an academic and industrial researcher most of my career, I don't find it surprising that they did not commit. Doing this is not that uncommon. In this case it may amount to not sticking their necks out any more than they have to. The main thing to me is that yet another excess heat effect similar to Rossi's has occurred and I find this to be very good news. I hope you're glad as well, DD.
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Sure, I would like to see the original research and not a letter about it. :)

And it is similar to Rossi's like a dog is similar to an elephant. (I did not actually check the size comparison)
 
Cave Dave:

"O' What a tangled web we weave..."

Rossi certainly is confabulating for all he's worth.. with plenty of willing, brown-nosing help from the Gullible-/-Wishful-Thinking Contingent.
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Mmm ... You might have chosen a better literary quotation to illuminate your point. I have added the next line:

Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!

(Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17.)
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I just know you don't intend to suggest that the e-cat is the FIRST occasion on which Rossi has practiced deceit

Is he not the "Sheikh of Brianza" whose garbage to oil transubstantiation shenanigans filled much of northern Italy with piles of toxic waste back in the nineties - to name but one of his exploits?
 
Craig B said:
Cave Dave:



Mmm ... You might have chosen a better literary quotation to illuminate your point. I have added the next line:



I just know you don't intend to suggest that the e-cat is the FIRST occasion on which Rossi has practiced deceit

Is he not the "Sheikh of Brianza" whose garbage to oil transubstantiation shenanigans filled much of northern Italy with piles of toxic waste back in the nineties - to name but one of his exploits?
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Yeah, I catch your point, and that is the correct second line, BUT, I was not meaning to imply this was his first Rodeo, just that once one starts down that path, there is no graceful way out; one has little choice but to go deeper and deeper...:)

ETA: Which Rossi is evidently doing in spades, this time it's the "gummint" patent guys, next, who knows?...

Each stage becoming more convoluted than the last, until only the most obtuse can keep trusting.

Dave
 
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