Congressman Weiner's inappropriate tweet

Gandalfs Beard said:
Not really! I'm not saying we should kill him or call him a Cracker!

It all comes down to context. A liar who keeps lying without consequences deserves to be brought down by lies. If he can't stand the heat, he should get out of the kitchen.

The same goes for politicians.

GB
Click to expand...

This makes no sense whatsoever, is not logically consistent, and simultaneously claims the moral high ground while stating that the solution is to lower oneself to the level of a liar to put an end to his lies. Do you not see the cyclical nature of this sort of "justice?" Do you not see the analog to the "avenger problem" in the war on terror or other similar examples?

Your proposed system is a terrible way of running things that will lead only to more problems, not solutions.
 
A Laughing Baby said:
The propensity for people to argue over the first group of lies rather than the second is what makes this thread embarrassing, along with the simply endless point-scoring by people on both sides through this whole thread.
Click to expand...

Why are you posting on this thread then? :confused:

Sometimes people on this forum do need a break from all the Heavy Stuff. It's just a fun way for people to vent their spleen. No-one is harmed by it.

But I do agree with you in regards to society in general, where endless games do a lot of damage to our political system.

GB
 
TraneWreck said:
That's the nice thing about democracy, you can vote on the criteria you value and I can do the same.

I see no particular connection between the poor decision to send cock-shots around the internet and the ability to rationally analyze Medicare legislation and choose the best option for the nation.

Once again, Martin Luther King loved whores. He purchased a number of them making his infidelity much more serious than Weiners. That does not change my opinion of him at all. He was still correct on Civil Rights and other socio-political topics.

That being said, this does lower my opinion of Mr. Weiner. It would not stop me from voting for him if he was opposed by Generic Republican X.
Click to expand...

I'd probably agree with you. It's not like he's Larry Craig (previously mentioned.) He's creepy, he's a jerk, but that's not illegal. It's just creepy and jerky. When you look at how certain members of Congress have used their positions to benefit themselves, financially as well as in other ways, Weiner starts to look almost sterling in character.

Let's see how this plays out.
 
Gandalfs Beard said:
Why are you posting on this thread then? :confused:

Sometimes people on this forum do need a break from all the Heavy Stuff. It's just a fun way for people to vent their spleen. No-one is harmed by it.

But I do agree with you in regards to society in general, where endless games do a lot of damage to our political system.

GB
Click to expand...

Because this thread and America at large is not viewing this story as a break from Heavy Stuff, but as the Heavy Stuff itself. And that's the core of my issue with the story.
 
I'd edit this in, but I feel like it deserves a second post.

Look. Weiner did a stupid thing. A morally questionable thing. A Bad Thing, I'd even go so far as to say. It's just shameful to me that our national narrative is so focused around that, that we have a 1,000+ post thread about it, when there's at least 3 far more pressing and relevant issues in recent events that very few people are even talking about:

1) The PATRIOT act was extended with an overwhelming bipartisan majority, solidifying the extraordinary broadening of state surveillance capabilities it represents.
2) The debt ceiling was reached a week ago, and there is no concrete or believable (in terms of being passed) solution on the table in Congress.
3) We continue to be involved in Libya, and the aftermath (I use that term free from any negative connotations) of the Arab Spring has yet to come to any sort of resolution.

These are just the first three things that popped into my head. There are the matters of corporate involvement in the political process which represent a broad and all-inclusive ideological (note that I do not say partisan) debate, the expansion of incarceration in America, Miami police destroying (or rather, attempting to destroy) evidence of their own bad behavior and being filmed doing it, and a lot more going on just in the past 2-3 weeks. And yet, they're not being mentioned, just because one more politician screwed up enough to let the sordid part of his life escape into public knowledge. And I'm supposed to be morally outraged that he sent a picture of the boys to a woman that wasn't his wife, because this is America, where we expect our politicians to be corrupt sleazebags, but FAITHFUL ones, damn it.

GB, you unknowingly nailed it when you painted it as a distraction. It is. It's 100% a distraction.
 
A Laughing Baby said:
This makes no sense whatsoever, is not logically consistent, and simultaneously claims the moral high ground while stating that the solution is to lower oneself to the level of a liar to put an end to his lies. Do you not see the cyclical nature of this sort of "justice?" Do you not see the analog to the "avenger problem" in the war on terror or other similar examples?

Your proposed system is a terrible way of running things that will lead only to more problems, not solutions.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Again, it all comes down to the context at hand. The rationale I am employing is not for Life and Death issues, and lies should never be used as a rationale for Mass murder; it is for keeping things balanced in the political arena. It's not about "Justice" or "Revenge;" it's about keeping each "side" in check.

Yes, it does suck that we sometimes are forced to use the same deplorable tactics as our opponents. But if we don't, we will get trampled on. If the GOP steals thousands of Democratic votes, it's up to us to keep the playing field even. and steal them back. If they smear us with lies, we should smear them right back.

I'm not suggesting that either side should behave like this in an abstract and hypothetical perfect world. I would love that perfect world as much as you.

The problem is that we don't live in that world, we live in this world. And when you are dealing with bullies in the political arena, you have to stand up to them, even if it means we sometimes have to wrestle in the mud.

Debate rules are another context altogether too. The only thing I really ask for in forum debates is that people use honest arguments, admit when their argument has been thoroughly trounced, and have the courtesy to acknowledge when the "other side" has thrown in the towel.

I'm employing a form of moral relativity, in that the contexts shape the rules. But I am not being relative within each context. I hold myself to the same standards as I hold others (to the best of my ability).

GB
 
A Laughing Baby said:
I'd edit this in, but I feel like it deserves a second post.

Look. Weiner did a stupid thing. A morally questionable thing. A Bad Thing, I'd even go so far as to say. It's just shameful to me that our national narrative is so focused around that, that we have a 1,000+ post thread about it, when there's at least 3 far more pressing and relevant issues in recent events that very few people are even talking about:

1) The PATRIOT act was extended with an overwhelming bipartisan majority, solidifying the extraordinary broadening of state surveillance capabilities it represents.
2) The debt ceiling was reached a week ago, and there is no concrete or believable (in terms of being passed) solution on the table in Congress.
3) We continue to be involved in Libya, and the aftermath (I use that term free from any negative connotations) of the Arab Spring has yet to come to any sort of resolution.

These are just the first three things that popped into my head. There are the matters of corporate involvement in the political process which represent a broad and all-inclusive ideological (note that I do not say partisan) debate, the expansion of incarceration in America, Miami police destroying (or rather, attempting to destroy) evidence of their own bad behavior and being filmed doing it, and a lot more going on just in the past 2-3 weeks. And yet, they're not being mentioned, just because one more politician screwed up enough to let the sordid part of his life escape into public knowledge. And I'm supposed to be morally outraged that he sent a picture of the boys to a woman that wasn't his wife, because this is America, where we expect our politicians to be corrupt sleazebags, but FAITHFUL ones, damn it.

GB, you unknowingly nailed it when you painted it as a distraction. It is. It's 100% a distraction.
Click to expand...

Well I didn't do it unknowingly, otherwise I agree with pretty much your entire post in this case.

(I'm not sure as to where you stand regarding the debt ceiling. We need to keep raising it because the economy as it stands depends on it. The only way to deal with that properly is to Nationalize at least the Federal Reserve, though I would go further and Nationalize all banks. Nobody should be allowed to create currency out of debt).


GB
 
A Laughing Baby said:
I won't quote the whole thing, but here is an article that sort of sums up how I feel about things. I know a lot of people on here might not agree with GG on a lot of things, but he lines up with my thoughts pretty consistently through time, and really nails it in this case (bolding and snips mine):
Click to expand...

Yes, on this point I totally agree.

GB
 
Roadtoad said:
I'd probably agree with you. It's not like he's Larry Craig (previously mentioned.) He's creepy, he's a jerk, but that's not illegal. It's just creepy and jerky. When you look at how certain members of Congress have used their positions to benefit themselves, financially as well as in other ways, Weiner starts to look almost sterling in character.

Let's see how this plays out.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this too.


GB
 
leftysergeant said:
So he did it. He did not grant anyone favors at our expense to keep it a secret.

He still intends to go on doing what he was doing in his public service.

We are not harmed.

His wife may have been. Our she may be kinky enough herself to get some sort of amusement out of it.

It's her choice whether to keep him or not. She will probably not make any demands on him that he vote or orate from a different position than he would have had this not been made public. She's a liberal, for crying out loud. No change is likely to occur. They seem to be on the same track politically and socially.

There is no reason for Weiner to resign. It is up to the people of his district to decide what they care more about. I am sure that they are more worried about what snots like Cantor and Ryan and Agent Orange are going to do to them than about what Weiner and a few floozies want to do to each other, especially since it is all quite normal sex and non-abusive.

Too damaged to represent his district? Doesn't that apply to an obviously deranged jerk like Diapers Vitter? Come on niow. That boy is sick. I mean wash-your-hands-with-bleach-if-you-touch-him sick. Doesnm't seem to bother Republicons in a Bible-thumping district. The stench of hypocrisy is overwhelming.

And, to top it all off, Vitter is legislating to the dteriment of the people he purports to represent in favor of their corporate masters. He should burn in hell.

Larry Craig, though certainly a bit of a schwueller himself, persecuted gays. I do not want to be him at Judgement Day.

Lee was outted by the recipient of his e-mail. There two victims. Both made an issue of it. He gave up because he couldn't deal with it and his base pretends rto be more moral than that. I shed no tears for him. He wasn't worth much to the country anyway. He was, further, a part of a movement that had begun to frighten the voting public, even in an extremist district like his own, as the election results show.

The women with whom Weiner flirted didn't complain. Three perverts with masculinity deficiencies did. Ho-freaking-HUM. People still need a man like Weiner doing the things that Weiner did on the House floor, so what he does at home in his study is not that big a concern. There are actual perverts there who need to be eliminated and they are doing horrible things to the sorts of working people who sent Weiner to D.C. in the first place. Resigning now would be an even bigger disdeed than his flirtations, especially if his wife is shrugging it off.
Click to expand...

:words:

You were wrong. Admit it.
 
If there is a victim in any of this, it is Weiner's wife. Nobody else was harmed.

Worthless, slimy excuses for men have done far worse, with identifiable victims, at our expense or at the expense of their campaign contributors. Some of them remained in office, doing immense harm to the country and sometimes to their victims.

When Diapers Vitter is driven from office and hounded to the point of disembowling himself, Weiner should step down. Otherwise, it is clear that the public does not, for the most part, really give a rat's.

It is up to the people of his district whether he has a career any more or not. At least one disgusting, sexually damaged pervert has done worse and still serves.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom