Pay for service firefighters?

COLONEL said:
Are you taliking about a private company or one owned by the town ? Again most of our ambulance services are volunteer and the ones that do charge, will only charge if they provide a service . Here and in most states the law says you can not be charged for something if a service or item was not provided.
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Well, someone is getting charged, even though it may not be you directly. They're not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.
 
stokes234 said:
Unless of course, everyone gets fire insurance. But the fire service isn't exactly the prime spot for competition - you don't want to be haggling over the prices as your house burns down as they did in Ancient Rome, and without competition there's no real reason for the private industry to do anything cheaper than the public sector, especially after factoring in costs like advertising.
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Let's not forget that those Ancient Roman firefighters somehow always seemed to be right there when many fires started. With paperwork in hand. Paperwork that often would give them ownership of the property if the signers could not pay their exorbitant fees.

I think I'd rather just pay slightly higher taxes and have a fire department that isn't payed by the fire. That just encourages bad behavior. And having competing fire brigades leads to all sorts of other problems, such as having to remember which one you are supposed to call as your house is burning down.
 
Aepervius said:
IIRC in France you do not pay for the ambulance (or at least I do not recall paying for it, having beeing transported bleeding and shocked in one after a car decided to plow into me) it is covered by the general social insurance cov erage and hospital cost.
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France? I'm sure it's like this all over Europe.

Are there any other places in the Western World except USA where you would have to pay for getting an ambulance?
 
COLONEL said:
Reread my comments VOLUNTEERS do do it out of the kindness of there hearts . there is no pay thats why it is called Volunteer.
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You do realize the company still charges for their costs...just not the patient.

You can't operate in a vacuum.
 
Ryokan said:
France? I'm sure it's like this all over Europe.

Are there any other places in the Western World except USA where you would have to pay for getting an ambulance?
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Of course not. That is Because the USA is the best at everything, especially health care, and you only get special features like that if you are the best.
 
excaza said:
You do realize the company still charges for their costs...just not the patient.

You can't operate in a vacuum.
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exactly. a volunteer fire department saves the taxpayer having to pay for thier salaries. All other costs still apply.
 
We also only have one hospital, it's private, and it's notorious for making the uninsured pay up front to get things like broken limbs attended to. And if you owe them any money from a previous visit you had better just drive sixty miles to the next hospital.
 
excaza said:
You do realize the company still charges for their costs...just not the patient.

You can't operate in a vacuum.
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No you are wrong Example our town and most other towns around here are on a Voluteer sevice, if for what ever reason we are called out whether we help some one or not there is no charge, the equipment is owend and maintained by the town and tax money is set aside every year for an operations budget for the equipment and supplies, just like the police department and highway department
 
COLONEL said:
No you are wrong Example our town and most other towns around here are on a Voluteer sevice, if for what ever reason we are called out whether we help some one or not there is no charge, the equipment is owend and maintained by the town and tax money is set aside every year for an operations budget for the equipment and supplies, just like the police department and highway department
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You're absolutely right, and it is important to have the volunteer fire departments continue to be well funded.

However in larger cities or wildfire areas being a firefighter becomes a full time job. You have to do a lot of preventative work as well as actual fire fighting. That requires having a good deal of public funding in order to look after the public good.
 
cwalner said:
Of course not. That is Because the USA is the best at everything, especially health care, and you only get special features like that if you are the best.
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IMO, we are second to none when it comes to hubris.
 
triforcharity said:
PLUS, not to mention the cost of billing people.
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Actually, the idea would be that the property the department saved would be on the auction block if the owner didn't pay. this could turn out to be a real money maker for the city or county. The sale of the property covers their costs plus a new buyer, with money, gets to develop the property and pay taxes. Plus, the county gets rid of the deadbeat, poor landowner.

Win, win, win. ;)
 
Weak Kitten said:
However in larger cities or wildfire areas being a firefighter becomes a full time job. You have to do a lot of preventative work as well as actual fire fighting. That requires having a good deal of public funding in order to look after the public good.
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I disagree. The last several times the fire department came to my place of work to conduct an inspection, there were 6 members and they came in a ladder truck. How is that cost effective.

Mostly, that "important, preventative work" firefighters do is to keep them busy so that their time and wages can be justified.

Only one member did the inspection, the others just wandered around and chatted with us, and asked about the vehicles in the shop. Six guys for an hour, plus the fuel on a ladder truck for the inspection of one business. And when I drive home for lunch, there are two mid-size pick-up trucks parked int eh same location in the fire department lot they are always parked in.
 
COLONEL said:
No you are wrong Example our town and most other towns around here are on a Voluteer sevice, if for what ever reason we are called out whether we help some one or not there is no charge, the equipment is owend and maintained by the town and tax money is set aside every year for an operations budget for the equipment and supplies, just like the police department and highway department
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No, I am not wrong. Try some reading comprehension.
excaza said:
Well, someone is getting charged, even though it may not be you directly.
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the equipment is owend and maintained by the town and tax money is set aside every year for an operations budget for the equipment and supplies, just like the police department and highway department
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Exactly what I said.
 
Travis said:
We also only have one hospital, it's private, and it's notorious for making the uninsured pay up front to get things like broken limbs attended to. And if you owe them any money from a previous visit you had better just drive sixty miles to the next hospital.
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Are you ******** serious?!?!?!?! That is against the law in Florida. If you need medical attention in the state of Florida, you will get it, whether you can pay or not.
 
qayak said:
I disagree. The last several times the fire department came to my place of work to conduct an inspection, there were 6 members and they came in a ladder truck. How is that cost effective.

Mostly, that "important, preventative work" firefighters do is to keep them busy so that their time and wages can be justified.
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I don't know what your area is like, I just know what it is like here in California and back in Michigan growing up. Firefighters spent a lot of time clearing dead growth, checking that brush wasn't too close to houses, cutting fire roads and in Detroit they would work to increase fire awareness, lobby for the removal of vacant houses and to clear empty lots of scrub. I saw them doing a full time job and I appreciated it.
 
Travis said:
We also only have one hospital, it's private, and it's notorious for making the uninsured pay up front to get things like broken limbs attended to. And if you owe them any money from a previous visit you had better just drive sixty miles to the next hospital.
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Find out if they recieve any money from the GOVT. if they do, by law they have to treat you whether or not you can pay . Turn them into the GOVT. if you find out they are recieving taxpayers dollars.
 
Weak Kitten said:
I don't know what your area is like, I just know what it is like here in California and back in Michigan growing up. Firefighters spent a lot of time clearing dead growth, checking that brush wasn't too close to houses, cutting fire roads and in Detroit they would work to increase fire awareness, lobby for the removal of vacant houses and to clear empty lots of scrub. I saw them doing a full time job and I appreciated it.
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Also, remember that we as taxpayers, expect the fire department to be able to respond 24/7. even if they do a lot of busywork, we still have to pay them to be available in case there is an emergency.

for larger cities, it is probably more cost effective to have a fully staffed professional department even if there is not always fires to fight. For smaller communities the volunteer departments are probably more fiscally sound.
 
COLONEL said:
Well I would hope you would at least carry renters insurance , How do you figure you would be billed ? It would be the property owner.that would have to pay as the property would be in their name. Also you say you would not call the department if you saw a fire . Well if that ever happens and you choose not to call and a person /child should die in that fire because you chose not to call , I hope you will be able to live with your self.
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So let me get this straight: The community/taxpayer/goverment is under no obligation to provide a working fire-department, a fire-department is under no obligation to do anything about a fire that they were not previously contracted for - yet i have to get it right if there's a fire that's none of my busyness and that i am certainly not being paid to deal with because...?
 
Couldn't the town folk get together, pool their money and employ a fire-fighting team? You'd probably want to have someone responsible for representing the town-folk interests?Perhaps the town folk could ask for volunteers for that role and use an election system to select one of the volunteers to be their representative?
 
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