Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[tsig]

Back up your claim with facts. There were not always exemptions. If you want to back up your claim provide the facts. If not, do not make the claims...

You might just want to post whatever point you have.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Babies can be born with all sorts of potential reactions to things. Of course we only find out about them when they actually have these reactions. But I suppose we should go the safer course and just keep all babies in a plastic bubble just in case.

Good idea. You can thank woman's lib for that.

 

[kookbreaker]

Good idea. You can thank woman's lib for that.

Are you in the same thread as the rest of us?

 

[TSR]

Back up your claim with facts. There were not always exemptions. If you want to back up your claim provide the facts. If not, do not make the claims...

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You have been offered facts.

Then you make additional claims about when exemptions began.


Claims that are strangely missing those fact thingies.


*Prove* that exemptions have not been available as long as mandatory exemptions have, or do not make the claim.
.

 

[ladmo]

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You have been offered facts.

Then you make additional claims about when exemptions began.


Claims that are strangely missing those fact thingies.


*Prove* that exemptions have not been available as long as mandatory exemptions have, or do not make the claim.
.

You are completely wrong... the "facts" were written well before my case. Plain and simple...

No additional claims have been made... state the additional claims. Excaza said posted exemptions well before my child went to school... all I asked was to provide the claims that pertain. It wasn't provided and if you think it was... then your mind was already made up.

I am still looking for the facts.

 

[TSR]

You are completely wrong... the "facts" were written well before my case. Plain and simple...

No additional claims have been made... state the additional claims. Excaza said posted exemptions well before my child went to school... all I asked was to provide the claims that pertain. It wasn't provided and if you think it was... then your mind was already made up.

I am still looking for the facts.

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Is there a particular reason you will not tell us in what year your child went to school (and in which state), so your claim can be verified? That *was* your claim, that no exemption was available when you child went to school.

Only a couple things missing: those little, you know, fact thingies you were whining about.
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[Travis]

HMMMM. So instead of pushing rubella vaccine for all 10 year old girls who haven't already become immune, all babies get it?

Yes, because babies can still get it and can pass it on. And trying to figure out who's immune at some later age is just stupid.

Good idea. You can thank woman's lib for that.

What are getting on about here?

 

[Dave Rogers]

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Is there a particular reason you will not tell us in what year your child went to school (and in which state), so your claim can be verified?.

To be fair, that's the sort of information that I probably wouldn't want to pass on to strangers on a public forum.

Dave

 

[Tolls]

And I would not have written anything had it come from a legitimate source. Being wrapped in the conspiracy langauge that it was, I was taking issue with that. Good information doesn't have to be taken from bad sources.

Fair point on the source, though I have to say it does seem to be a large amount of kookery using the 1871/2 epidemic as a stick to hit vaccination with. Trying to find some real, actual, quality data is nigh on impossible...at least during "in work procrastination time".


I would be curious as to the death rate from smallpox during that outbreak compared with, say, the 1839 one. Though those statistics may simply not be available.

 

[TSR]

To be fair, that's the sort of information that I probably wouldn't want to pass on to strangers on a public forum.

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First thought: Because there are so very few children starting school in most states in any given year it would make it child's play to find this person's son and force vaccinations on him?

Tell you what: one of my children started school in the state of Texas in the early nineties. Any other information you can tell me about me or her?

Second thought: That being the case, I would recommend that you not try to make a point by using your own family as an example with no other supporting information and expect it to be taken at face value.
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[Dave Rogers]

First thought: Because there are so very few children starting school in most states in any given year it would make it child's play to find this person's son and force vaccinations on him?

Pointless. Assuming the state has reasonably well kept records, they already have the information required. No, it's more that this is the Internet, and anyone can read what's posted here.

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Tell you what: one of my children started school in the state of Texas in the early nineties. Any other information you can tell me about me or her?

No, but I'm not a creepy Internet stalker. Having just witnessed the RLBatypocalypse (see Forum Management Feedback) I'm a little more mindful of privacy issues this week.

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Second thought: That being the case, I would recommend that you not try to make a point by using your own family as an example with no other supporting information and expect it to be taken at face value.
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It's a bit difficult to know where to draw the line between, on the one hand, respecting privacy and hence accepting anecdotes without proper verification, and on the other, dismissing any and all personal anecdotes because they're unsupported. I'm prepared to believe that, at the very least, ladmo may not have been clearly informed of any waiver rights that may have existed at the time his children were vaccinated. I've also known enough medical professionals who've delivered lectures on the importance of vaccination at inappropriate times - for example, complaining about people who refuse vaccinations while actually giving a vaccination, which is at best utterly pointless - to find it plausible that individuals may not have chosen to publicise any such waivers as strongly as they should.

But at the heart of the issue is the Hippocratic Oath, which quite categorically forbids a doctor from carrying out a vaccination that will cause a known allergic reaction; this clearly constitutes harm.

Dave

 

[Tolls]

Then all ladmo has to do is show that before a certain year in State X that there was no exemption available for vaccinations. We don't need an actual year, just a notice that prior to some date there was no exemption.

Hell, pick any state to show it, doesn't even have to be the real one involved...because at the moment it's just an "it's true because I say so" statement, and we currently have the list of exemptions provided earlier.

 

[excaza]

Back up your claim with facts. There were not always exemptions. If you want to back up your claim provide the facts. If not, do not make the claims...

Ok then, where's your facts to back up your claim that there were not always exemptions?

 

[Travis]

There have always been exemptions as long as there has been a requirement for vaccination. I think it should be proven that there was ever a time when any state didn't give out exemptions before we start getting hung up on any particular year.

 

[TSR]

Pointless. Assuming the state has reasonably well kept records, they already have the information required. No, it's more that this is the Internet, and anyone can read what's posted here.

No, but I'm not a creepy Internet stalker. Having just witnessed the RLBatypocalypse (see Forum Management Feedback) I'm a little more mindful of privacy issues this week.

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No, the point being that this is not a privacy issue, since the information requested does not invade anyone's privacy any more than the initial claim did.

And keep in mind that we were invited to guess when zir son attended public school.

If you, or zie, consider it to be a privacy issue, then it should not have been brought up in the first place. *Zie* is the one demanding facts, and refusing to supply them. As has been pointed out, zir position seems to be arguing that mandatory vaccinations are generally a bad thing because zir son might have had a bad reaction.

Either an exemption *was* granted and the child was allowed to attend without vaccination < zie says not >, or no exemption and the child did not attend public school < zie says son did >. The two claims contradict each other.
.

 

[carlitos]

This thread does nothing to disabuse me of the notion that anti-vaxxers don't have facts or an argument.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

This thread does nothing to disabuse me of the notion that anti-vaxxers don't have facts or an argument.

They often have that effect.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Good idea. You can thank woman's lib for that.

Are you in the same thread as the rest of us?

Thread? How about decade.

 

[Clayton Moore]

This thread does nothing to disabuse me of the notion that anti-vaxxers don't have facts or an argument.

Antivaxxers?

Is questioning the wisdom of OVER vaccinating babies anti vaccine?

Is wanting to spreading vaccinations over period of time anti vaccine?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Yes, because babies can still get it and can pass it on. And trying to figure out who's immune at some later age is just stupid.



What are getting on about here?

Originally Posted by Travis View Post

Babies can be born with all sorts of potential reactions to things. Of course we only find out about them when they actually have these reactions. But I suppose we should go the safer course and just keep all babies in a plastic bubble just in case.

Woman's lib eliminated much of what was left of that bubble.