Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[DOC]

I wonder if DOC realises that none of the gospels were written by the claimed authors.
All were anonymous. Titles were only given them decades later.

You have the right to believe that. And I have the right to believe the different opinions of other scholars.

And if what you said is true, those liars were good to get Thomas Jefferson to spend his time cutting and pasting their work and putting many of their verses in a 60+ page book with each verse translated into 4 different languages. He didn't even do that for Plato, Aritstotle, and Socrates.

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

I wonder if DOC realises that none of the gospels were written by the claimed authors.
All were anonymous. Titles were only given them decades later.

You'd think he'd know by now. We've only told him that over 100 times.

GB

 

[zooterkin]

You have the right to believe that. And I have the right to believe the different opinions of other scholars.

And if what you said is true, those liars were good to get Thomas Jefferson to spend his time cutting and pasting their work and putting many of their verses in a 60+ page book with each verse translated into 4 different languages. He didn't even do that for Plato, Aritstotle, and Socrates.

You don't have the first clue about which bits he left in, do you?

 

[DOC]

But the point isn't whether they were liars, DOC, but whether they wrote the truth. Luke's census, the varied geneologies of Jesus, the forged yet canonic Epistles, the contradictions between Luke's and Paul's version of when the meeting between Paul and the Apostles took place, the last words of Jesus, the list goes on of elements which show the lack of truthiness in the NT.

I've already replied to all of these, I don't have the time to do it again.

Isn't it time you posted some evidence defending your OP?

I have posted evidence in my 2500 posts, if you don't think so, you have the right to your opinion.

 

[Hokulele]

I have posted evidence in my 2500 posts, if you don't think so, you have the right to your opinion.

It may be evidence, but it is very poor evidence.

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

It may be evidence, but it is very poor evidence.

Quite frankly, most of it doesn't even qualify as "evidence," poor or not.

GB

 

[RoboTimbo]

I have posted evidence in my 2500 posts, if you don't think so, you have the right to your opinion.

DOC, using your definition of "evidence", has there been evidence that the NT writers did NOT tell the truth in the other 17,000 posts?

 

[kmortis]

Muddy Waters.

I'd go for Howlin' Wolf.

Ella Fitzgerald?
Charles Mingus?

Or aren't we naming all the artists listed at the begining of "Woke up This Morning"?

 

[X]

I have posted evidence in my 2500 posts...

You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Akhenaten]

You have the right to believe that. And I have the right to believe the different opinions of other scholars.

Thank you, Captain Obvious!

That each of us has the right to believe whatever we want has never been in question, DOC. The whole point of the thread is to discuss the evidence that the New Testament writers were telling the truth. Or at least it would have been, if such evidence had been forthcoming.

That you've only been able to produce the opinions of apologists and fellow believers rather than actual evidence only serves to demonstrate that the grandiose claim of the thread's title is a complete crock.

In fact, that claim died the second you hit the submit button under that woeful looking collection of drivel in the very first post, and you've done nothing with your subsequent 2½ thousand posts but dig a bigger and bigger hole for yourself.

And if what you said is true, those liars were good to get Thomas Jefferson to spend his time cutting and pasting their work and putting many of their verses in a 60+ page book with each verse translated into 4 different languages.

The text at the bottom of this picture is completely invisible to you, isn't it DOC?

Or can you in fact see it but are unable to derive any meaning from it.

Allow me to paraphrase it for you, DOC.

President Jefferson is in fact saying "Follow the evidence."


Got any, DOC, or are you going to stick with the blindfolded fear?

He didn't even do that for Plato, Aritstotle, and Socrates.

That's because Plato, Aristotle and Socrates weren't interwoven with stupid stories designed to frighten/impress/bamboozle a mob of bronze age goatherders, and were deemed suitable just as they were.

 

[pakeha]

I've already replied to all of these, I don't have the time to do it again.

I have posted evidence in my 2500 posts, if you don't think so, you have the right to your opinion.

DOC, your replies have been refuted again and again.
And to be honest, though I've followed this thread I don't recall your explanation of that confusion between Luke and paul about when that meeting between Peter and Paul took place, if at all.

Could you link to your posts on the subject? It's through this thread I was introduced to the idea the canonical NT contains blatantly forged and interpolated texts.
I'd appreciate reading your take on this in general and on the meeting between Paul and Peter.

I can't agree with your assertion you've posted evidence in favor of the veracity ofthe NT here and I'd be glad to see some.

 

[Akhenaten]

But the point isn't whether they were liars, DOC, but whether they wrote the truth. Luke's census, the varied geneologies of Jesus, the forged yet canonic Epistles, the contradictions between Luke's and Paul's version of when the meeting between Paul and the Apostles took place, the last words of Jesus, the list goes on of elements which show the lack of truthiness in the NT.

I've already replied to all of these, I don't have the time to do it again.

Quoting other posters and then typing one of your hackneyed little mantras underneath their words might in fact constitute the form of replying, but it has nothing of the substance required in a discussion such as this.

This lack of substance coupled with your obvious time management problems leads one to wonder what the hell you're doing here in the first place.

The thread hums along just fine without you so why not treat yourself to a little break and we'll give you a buzz when the pizza's ready.

Isn't it time you posted some evidence defending your OP?

I have posted evidence in my 2500 posts, if you don't think so, you have the right to your opinion.

DOC, DOC, DOC.



Why are you unable to understand that attempting an argumentum ad numerum should at the very least be reserved for when the numbers actually favour your side of the argument.

Your piddling 2½ thousand posts are met, matched and completely overwhelmed by the 17 thousand posts refuting your nonsensical claims. And as if that wasn't a humiliating enough defeat, the fact is that you haven't even created 2½ thousand discrete posts - all you've done is repeat the same few lame bits of apologetic flotsam over and over again to such an extent that most of the forum can reproduce your material better than you can yourself.

 

[Mojo]

"You got to use your brain."

This is for you, Mojo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hEYwk0bypY&feature=related

"Plus, you got to go to church" (see end of clip).


I suppose it's as much "evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth" as anything DOC has posted...

 

[pakeha]

Sorry about the tacky double-post.
There was an interesting exchange on page 61 on the subject of the Paul Peter meeting.

Paul did not claim he did not "speak" to anyone as you state. If you read the King James and the New Living below it states he did not "confer or consult" with anyone. This means as even he himself states he got (at this point) his preaching directly from God (not men or the apostles) see Galatians 1:12. In other words Paul did not go to the apostles and consult or confer at this time -- Jesus Christ himself was revealing to him what to say... You can preach for weeks and still not consult or confer with anyone.

KJV

Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

NLT

Gal 1:16 Then he revealed his Son to me so that I could proclaim the Good News about Jesus to the Gentiles. When all this happened to me, I did not rush out to consult with anyone else.

The statement I bolded above is absurd.

From Galatians 1:18 KJV:

Then after three years I {Paul} went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. And read Galatians 2:9 where it says in a meeting 14 years later that Peter, John, and James recognized the special task God had given Paul and shook hands with him as a sign they were all partners.

You do a lot of talking about me and the bible, maybe it's time to follow your own advice.

ETA: And the fact that the NT writer pointed out there was at first a difference of opinion about circumcision among the leaders of Christianity shows he was in fact telling the truth. If he was lying or whitewashing his story he would have ignored mentioning any conflicts amongst leaders in the history of the early church.

'You' is Hokulele.
What IS interesting is DOC's emotional investment in that proof by candid disclosures argumment.
I've never understood its charm, myself.

 

[Akhenaten]

Ella Fitzgerald?
Charles Mingus?

Or aren't we naming all the artists listed at the begining of "Woke up This Morning"?

A timely reminder.

What have you got to say for yourself about this sad little sidebar, DOC?

As zooterkin pointed out you misquoted your own source to come up with a description of Frederick Douglass as "the most well known black man in America" and have been shown in no uncertain terms how ridiculous it was to try and add this spin.

Please don't mistake this as me offering you an opportunity to correct the record with grace and humility. This is me handing you a virtual shovel.

Don't let me down.

 

[ddt]

You have the right to believe that. And I have the right to believe the different opinions of other scholars.

But when you bring up those opinions here, you must be able to support them. The last piece of "evidence" you brought up were two scholars claiming an alternate translation for Luke 2:2. To be precise, you only quoted others citing them. IMNSHO, I refuted that translation with sound arguments on basis of the Greek grammar involved. You never tried to refute my arguments, you didn't even try to come up with the arguments of the scholars you indirectly cited (Heichelheim and Geisler - and I realize I'm using the word scholar loosely here). So, how is it? Can't you even address a simple 8-word Greek Koine sentence?

And if what you said is true, those liars were good to get Thomas Jefferson to spend his time cutting and pasting their work and putting many of their verses in a 60+ page book with each verse translated into 4 different languages. He didn't even do that for Plato, Aritstotle, and Socrates.

What is this, the Gish Gallop in very slow motion? We're not done yet with Luke 2:2.

Oh, and Socrates never wrote anything. What we know about his philosophy is through Plato's writings.

 

[pakeha]

"Plus, you got to go to church" ...

Amen!

 

[Resume]

.
And if what you said is true, those liars were good to get Thomas Jefferson to spend his time cutting and pasting their work and putting many of their verses in a 60+ page book with each verse translated into 4 different languages. He didn't even do that for Plato, Aritstotle, and Socrates.

You understand the Jefferson Bible deliberately omits mention of Christ's alleged miracles, divinity and supernatural events?

 

[John Jones]

You understand the Jefferson Bible deliberately omits mention of Christ's alleged miracles, divinity and supernatural events?

It's anyone's guess what DOC understands, but this has been pointed-out to him innumerable times.

DOC even stopped citing Jefferson for a while when the Jefferson Gambit got ripped to pieces every.single.time.

 

[Resume]

It's anyone's guess what DOC understands, but this has been pointed-out to him innumerable times.

DOC even stopped citing Jefferson for a while when the Jefferson Gambit got ripped to pieces every.single.time.

Yeah, this thread is so damn convoluted it's hard to remember what DOC's been up to.