Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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LondonJohn said:
That's irrelevant: it's no evidence whatsoever of any group acting in concert - it's merely evidence of people seeking out media reports concerning this case and making comments. And if you're talking about such behaviour, the near-ubiquitous presence of machine/harry rag on comments sections is an excellent case study.
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Might I suggest broadening your proposed case study to include the examples of "jccourt" and "Cody Joe Bibby"?
 
Bruce Fisher said:
What info would you like me to post?
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I can't speak for shuttlt, but I'd appreciate if you could post the photographs detailing the condition of the ground underneath Filomena's window which were entered into the evidence file. Thanks in advance.
 
RoseMontague said:
Fuji's argument is just a variation on the old argument of some super secret evidence that the court must have that does prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Why Massei would have neglected something so important in his 400 page report is a question that has not been answered. Massei's reasoning is flawed as can be seen by the report itself. I understand why those on the guilty side want there to be some super secret evidence that Massei fails to mention simply because his report is so unconvincing.
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Within the entirety of the 397 pages of the English translation of the Massei report, there are a total of 21 pages on which a citation of a specific photo is made. Of these, many are referring to the same photo. In fact, there are only a total of 39 unique numbered photo citations, the highest indexed number of which is Photo 159, cited on Page 279. Even just referring to this subset of the photographic evidence of whose existence we are aware, what do you make of the 120 uncited photographs? Does this not give you pause to consider the fact that there is in reality a huge body of evidence formally submitted to the court which was not explicitly cited by Massei? It should also be helpful to keep in mind that there are 44 separate pages of Massei on which mention is made of photographs which are not even cited by number in the text.

I have seen Alt+F4 repeatedly ridiculed here for arguing much the same thing. I do not think that is deserved.
 
LondonJohn said:
I'd also argue that whoever's doing this work must have an awful lot of available time to devote to this hobby - time that most of the rest of us don't have. I think that this reflects a certain very high level of..... shall we say..... commitment to this case amongst certain people on the pro-guilt side, many of whom also seem to think that they are on some sort of quasi-evangelical mission to "honour the memory of Meredith".
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Coming from someone who - in the year they've been a member at JREF - has made over 3,200 posts here, with all of three posts in non-Knox-related threads, well, that's just awesome.
 
Fuji said:
So you refuse to read the detailed reasoning of how the court reached its decision, and yet you still feel entitled to say that Knox-supporters are "winning"? How is that a reasonable position to take, given that you must be at least hazily aware that many "guilters" who have posted to this and the other Knox threads make explicit reference to Massei citations (and find implicit agreement with its overall findings) to buttress their arguments?
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You want to convince Rolfe to read Massei?

"Go ahead, make my day"

:)
 
Mary_H said:
I would guess there are a lot of differences between the circumstances of your arrest and the circumstances of Amanda's arrest, including yourselves, your families, your backgrounds, the locations, the alleged crimes, and so on. You shouldn't compare your situation to Amanda's. The Knox method is admirable, to say the least, but your method might be more effective in other possible worlds.
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I think her defense was perfect. I can't imagine any defense conducted better than that conducted by the Knox family.

But...

But...

In my two experiences, I was going to go to the media and make a big deal of the whole thing and embarrass the cop roaches. I was stopped by all my lawyers in my case and in the case of a relative. The lawyers told me it would only make the cop roaches mad. I was advised to suck up to them and offer to pay for their imaginary injuries. Worked like a charm!

You have to smile to cop roaches and suck up to them. You have to show that you are afraid of them (fear=respect in the mind of a cop roach).

You have to get a smiling, back stabbing lawyer on the case as soon as possible. You have to play their sick game even if it makes you feel like puking.

That's my take of the situation. Perhaps Guede went that route. Perhaps Amanda would have been getting out of jail now if she took that route.

God bless the Knox family and damn all the minions that persecute them.
 
Fuji said:
It's truly amazing that you point to a section of the Massei report dealing specifically with an examination of the mobile phone evidence in an attempt to assert unfounded claims relating to Sollecito's laptop.

Yes. Truly amazing.
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Dan O. cited the page number in the Italian original, not the PMF translation. For those that don't have access to the original, the numbers in square brackets in the PMF translation are the page numbers at the bottom of the page of the original version.
 
Fuji said:
So you refuse to read the detailed reasoning of how the court reached its decision, and yet you still feel entitled to say that Knox-supporters are "winning"? How is that a reasonable position to take, given that you must be at least hazily aware that many "guilters" who have posted to this and the other Knox threads make explicit reference to Massei citations (and find implicit agreement with its overall findings) to buttress their arguments?
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What Massei citations buttress what arguments?

General George S. Patton said: "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." In other words, the Knox's have already suffered so much that "winning" is impossible.
 
Fuji said:
Within the entirety of the 397 pages of the English translation of the Massei report, there are a total of 21 pages on which a citation of a specific photo is made. Of these, many are referring to the same photo. In fact, there are only a total of 39 unique numbered photo citations, the highest indexed number of which is Photo 159, cited on Page 279. Even just referring to this subset of the photographic evidence of whose existence we are aware, what do you make of the 120 uncited photographs? Does this not give you pause to consider the fact that there is in reality a huge body of evidence formally submitted to the court which was not explicitly cited by Massei? It should also be helpful to keep in mind that there are 44 separate pages of Massei on which mention is made of photographs which are not even cited by number in the text.

I have seen Alt+F4 repeatedly ridiculed here for arguing much the same thing. I do not think that is deserved.
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Wow, what synchronicity. I was just thinking about the mysterious [403] and there it is in post 279 of this very thread where treehorn was trying to make much the same argument.
 
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RoseMontague said:
I am not sure if your post should read "misrepresented" instead of "misunderstood". I am trying to find more on the exact nature of the DNA evidence that led to the Mom's arrest but have not had much success to this point.

Michele was coerced into naming his daughter and the evidence against her amounts to smoke and mirrors. I had thought the hammer of injustice would fall on the boyfriend next. I was not correct with that one.
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The police doubted that Michele could move a rock that covered the well. The daughters cell phone pinged a tower near the well. Therefore the daughter is guilty. No matter that Michele confessed and gave imtimate details. No matter that the daughter had no time to help in the murder...
And so the grave digger who killed and then raped the body (his admisson) has paid his debt for killing a beautiful young girl. And Sara's best friend and cousin is in jail still. And now also her mother. Only in Italy.
 
Mary_H said:
Very interesting thought, Fine. Chris makes a good point, too. Wouldn't it be ironic (no pun intended) if it were Meredith's footprint?
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Yes, it likely is MK footprint.

We will never know...they never sampled MK foot. And they over applied the luminol so that clear identification is impossible. These prints may as well have been made by bigfoot.
 
Fuji said:
So you refuse to read the detailed reasoning of how the court reached its decision, and yet you still feel entitled to say that Knox-supporters are "winning"? How is that a reasonable position to take, given that you must be at least hazily aware that many "guilters" who have posted to this and the other Knox threads make explicit reference to Massei citations (and find implicit agreement with its overall findings) to buttress their arguments?
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Fuji

I genuinely have to take issue with your argument here.

Rolfe, or any poster for that matter, is perfectly entitled to take the view that the Foakers are winning (whatever that means - its a nonsensical metric* IMO) or 'Amanda' is innocent or whatever whether she informs herself of even the most basic facts of the case or not.

That's her prerogative, if ill-informed arguments weren't allowed on this thread (and indeed many/all others) it would be very short indeed and one more poster makes no difference either way at 50k posts and counting.

However should she have anything to add to the 'science' regarding 'gastric transit' her input would be most welcome.

But based on the lack of response to this post her argument is not backed up by the 'science' and as such can be regarded in the same light as all the other online 'sciency' / 'Early & precise ToD' arguments.

platonov

ETA * Although very prevalent on this issue apparently - If a certain subset of an 'anglo' audience can be convinced via movies or whatever the Italian courts will cede jurisdiction ???
 
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RWVBWL said:
Hello Fine,
You often present thought provoking posts. This is another one I believe. Even though it's been, what does PilotPadron always harp on - oh ya, the some 50,000+ postings here, new ideas about what might have happened still surface. This is the 1st time I have read anyone mention that it might have been Amanda, or Meredith herself, as Chris C noted, stepping into that washed off, diluted fake blood Meredith wore the night before. Interesting...
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Speaking of photos...

Does anyone have the photo of Mignini in his office? In the backround are citations and plaques and I am almost certain there is a photo of Pink Panther actor...Peter Sellers. This would be simply devine to have. :blush:
 
thanks to komponisto

Fuji,

From the link you provided you wrote, "What many of Amanda Knox's most fervent supporters refuse to recognize about this case is that if it can be conclusively determined that the crime scene at the cottage was staged, that fact alone - all by itself - is sufficient to establish a very high likelihood of her involvement in Meredith Kercher's murder." This is a very intriguing point. However, its converse is at least as strong. If the scene were not staged, then it is quite unlikely that Knox or Sollecito were involved. That is why the failure of ILE to produce a reconstruction of the glass being broken is so critical to my thinking. Without its being done, I am more than 50% confident that the burglary was not staged; therefore, I am more than 50% confident that the two are innocent. MOO.
 
RandyN said:
Speaking of photos...

Does anyone have the photo of Mignini in his office? In the backround are citations and plaques and I am almost certain there is a photo of Pink Panther actor...Peter Sellers. This would be simply devine to have. :blush:
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knox_682_1314091a.jpg


This one?

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Fuji said:
So you refuse to read the detailed reasoning of how the court reached its decision, and yet you still feel entitled to say that Knox-supporters are "winning"? How is that a reasonable position to take, given that you must be at least hazily aware that many "guilters" who have posted to this and the other Knox threads make explicit reference to Massei citations (and find implicit agreement with its overall findings) to buttress their arguments?
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Rolfe...I have read Massei...let me paraphrase for you...all 447 pages or so...

Everything the prosecution says is true. Everything the defense says is not true.

Except the prosecutions motive is wrong and so I (Massei) will make up my own.

There... you are now up to speed.
 
Fuji said:
A disagreement over the hypothesized TOD does not represent a fundamental distinction in the separate findings of the respective courts: at every stage of the process, the courts have confirmed that the murder was not committed by a lone intruder who broke in to the cottage through Filomena's window. In Guede's instance, this finding is now final.

I stand by my original statement quoted above, and am actually somewhat taken aback that this very simple concept has to be explained so many times.
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Really....how many times will take for you to understand that this breakin was easy for Rudy? It is a simple concept. Rock thru window...unlatch window...enter. Easy simple and correct.

In Guede's trial he said MK left him in the front door. That finding is final in his case...but that case has nothing to do with this case.
 
Fine said:
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[qimg]http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01314/knox_682_1314091a.jpg[/qimg]

This one?

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He's not as cute as 'Manders' :eek:

That settles it.

To quote another poster 'Let her loose, Bruce' :)
 
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