Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

Status
Not open for further replies.
DOC said:
And all of this can be considered some evidence for the truth of the NT because it shows how the power of the gospel can transform the life of a poor brokenhearted slave into becoming a great man who met Lincoln and became the most well known black man in America.
Click to expand...


Say what???
 
Akhenaten said:
The gospels, for all that they're fabrications, contain any number of useful principles which, if adhered to, can inspire men (and women) to greatness.
Click to expand...


I seem to remember some chappie called Jefferson making a very similar point.
 
Last edited:
Anyway, DOC, was the author of Matthew 16:28 telling the truth when they wrote that Jesus said that some of the people he was addressing would still be alive when he returned?
 
Akhenaten said:
Say what???
Click to expand...

SOP from DOC. Selective/mis-quotation. From one of his links, what was actually said was:
He died on February 20, 1895, a man who achieved great things through persistence, pluck, hard work and Christian hope. In his lifetime, he was as well-known as any black person in America. But to get there, he had traveled a long road from his slave-cabin beginnings.
Click to expand...

Which is not quite the same thing.
 
zooterkin said:
Akhenaten said:
Say what???
Click to expand...


SOP from DOC. Selective/mis-quotation. From one of his links, what was actually said was:

He died on February 20, 1895, a man who achieved great things through persistence, pluck, hard work and Christian hope. In his lifetime, he was as well-known as any black person in America. But to get there, he had traveled a long road from his slave-cabin beginnings.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Misquoting??? DOC???

Say it isn't so!
 
The gospel of Aberhaten may yet come to be world famous!
xrolic.gif
 
DOC said:
Could phony gospels written by liars 2000 years ago have had this kind of power to help produce these great men out of broken hearted poor slaves?
Click to expand...

Dianetics? Tom Cruise? DOC just proved that Scientology is real!
 
Dorothy L Sayers' book 'Gaudy Night' inspired Jill Paton Walsh to study at Oxford and thus directly influenced her whole career; therefore Lord Peter Wimsey is a historical figure! DOC's just proved it to be true.
 
jond said:
Dianetics? Tom Cruise? DOC just proved that Scientology is real!
Click to expand...

Sorry, that should be Scientology is True™. (not real. of course it's real. I've been harassed by way too many people asking if I want to take a free personality test for it not to be real...)

(Oh, and, DOC: see how easy it is to admit you made a mistake, especially a little one?)
 
DOC still hasn't answered why he thinks an abolitionist would back him, given that that he's supportive of slavery...
 
DOC said:
And all of this can be considered some evidence for the truth of the NT because it shows how the power of the gospel can transform the life of a poor brokenhearted slave into becoming a great man who met Lincoln and became the most well known black man in America. Also Martin Luther King's grandparents were slaves and his father and grandfather were ministers like he was.

Could phony gospels written by liars 2000 years ago have had this kind of power to help produce these great men out of broken hearted poor slaves?
Click to expand...
People cannot be inspired by fictional stories? :rolleyes:

Agatha said:
The "phony gospels written by liars" is a strawman argument of yours which has been addressed several times already. The authors of the gospels, whoever they were, may not have been intentionally lying, they may quite well have believed that what they were writing was true.

But belief is not the same thing as knowledge, and as there are parts of the gospels which are quite clearly at odds with the historical record (Luke's census, for example), it is clear that the gospels are not all fact.
Click to expand...
And now we're back to Luke's census: DOC, are you willing to admit all those gymnastics by your favourite apologetics to make the Greek text of Luke 2:1-2 conform to our historical knowledge are bollocks?

Of course, Luke was no historian. History to him was secondary to the message he wanted to convey, the gospel. It was in fact quite common that classical authors wrote history to attach a moral lesson to the story. And with Luke's gospel, of course the historical accuracy had to take a backseat to the gospel message and the political realities of the day.

An interesting thesis about Luke's census account is promulgated by Moehring in this essay, on pp. 157-158. He posits that Luke deliberately has Joseph travel to Bethlehem for a Roman census in order to stress that Christianity is not hostile to the Roman overlordship. It fits in with such other passages as "Render unto Caesar ..." and the crucifixion account where Pilate is unwilling to crucify Jesus and leaves the choice to the Jews. Christians had to live within the Roman Empire and had every bit of interest to distinguish themselves form those pesky Jews who revolted every 30 years or so against Roman rule.

Of course, we cannot really test that thesis but it is much more credible and coherent with the rest of our (historical) knowledge than the gymnastics to try and coerce Luke's text into the facts of the historical record.
 
DOC said:
Well I said I was done with this issue of slavery if everyone else was but I guess that is not the case.

It's strongly implied in his autobiography when he says this:
Click to expand...

So what? It's not evidence that the new testament writers told the truth.
 
RoboTimbo said:
Akhenaten said:
My guess was Bill Cosby. Does this mean we fail at history?
Click to expand...


Not OJ then?
Click to expand...


No President Obama either, or Martin Luther King (DOC even mentioned MLK in the same post that he talked about his new apologist). I have a funny feeling most people would have poor old Mr Douglass way down their lists.

I have to wonder if DOC really thought he'd get away with describing someone of whom most of us have never heard as "the most well known black man in America".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom