General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Thunder]

The price Israel paid was the lives of its soldiers and civilians lost through the attacking Arab armies.

fascinating. so whenever Israel confiscates Arab private property in the West Bank to continue its building of the Hafrada Wall, or to build more Israeli-only settlements, they don't have to pay the property-owners for the land, for they already paid in blood in 1967 & 1973?

wow. imperialist & colonialist thinking at its finest. Stalin & Hitler would give this a thumbs up.

this argument is now truly dead. goodbye folks.

 

[mortimer]

ah, so you admit that all of these discriminatory practises are reality?

excellent. I'm glad we are finally agreeing.

Go back and read my post again. I said no such thing. I said they are not signs of apartheid, because they are not directed at a particular race or races "(whether they're factual or not)"

 

[JudeBrando]

yes..."slogan chanting" is how I describe the repetition of simplistic solutions for complex matters.

certainly if the violence ended it would be the end of violent conflict but it would not be the end of conflict....or the problem.

"Simple" does not mean "simplistic."
It's not complex, no matter how much you wish it to be.
One side wants the other side dead. Period.
How complex is that? How much additional "rational" discussion do you require?

Perhaps some need it to be complicated so that in that obfuscation they can find a satisfactorily exculpatory justification to assuage their conscience from some difficulties of cognitive dissonance that might occasionally arise as a result of supporting the insatiably bloodthirsty and murderous in the name of peace.

 

[BeAChooser]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/05/the_audacity_of_reality.html

May 29, 2011

The Audacity of Reality

Despite the avalanche of articles analyzing U.S. President Barack Obama's May 19, 2011 Middle East speech, one irony has not been mentioned. The president laid out a magnificent blueprint for the countries in the region to follow in order to ensure dignity, freedom, and hope for their citizens. But all the president had to do was look reality in the face, and find his vision reflected in Israel. Yet Israel was the only country which the president wants both to shrink, and away from which he told Arabs to turn.

Yeah. Go figure.

 

[bikerdruid]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/05/the_audacity_of_reality.html

Yeah. Go figure.

i checked your source....'american thinker'.....wow.

here are some other gems on the site:

www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/god_and_sarah_palin.html
Sarah Palin loves God. God loves Sarah Palin. And that is why they hate her...and Him.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/why_obamas_communist_connectio.html
[Obama's] connection to communists in particular, from communist-terrorists like Bill Ayers to the communist agitator-journalist Frank Marshall Davis to fellow travelers like Saul Alinsky

www.americanthinker.com/2005/02/evolution_origins_of_life_and.html
This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. ...


wow....that's quite an interesting site....a lot of crap ther, for sure...

 

[JihadJane]

"Simple" does not mean "simplistic."
It's not complex, no matter how much you wish it to be.
One side wants the other side dead. Period.
How complex is that? How much additional "rational" discussion do you require?

Perhaps some need it to be complicated so that in that obfuscation they can find a satisfactorily exculpatory justification to assuage their conscience from some difficulties of cognitive dissonance that might occasionally arise as a result of supporting the insatiably bloodthirsty and murderous in the name of peace.

"Simplistic" would seem to be the correct word.

 

[The Fool]

"Simplistic" would seem to be the correct word.

simplistic chants based on unsupported premises. looks like we have another dude that things Palestinians are the borg

 

[Mycroft]

Autonomy. Found an excerpt that sums it up quite nicely.
http://pagerankstudio.com/Blog/2011...s-and-objectives-outcome-casualties-treaties/

The San Remo conference and the subsequent Treaty of Sèvres only confirms this further, which can be found in full text here.

No mention or promises by the Allied powers for democracy exist.

But I'm guessing this was a rhetorical question on your part and a test whether the person in question thinks independence, sovereignty, autonomy, and democracy are somehow interchangeable.

My guess is Parky failed with flying colors.

Thank you for doing the research and providing the answer.

No, I meant the question quite literally and not rhetorically at all. My memory said they were promised autonomy, but the assumptions seemed to favor democracy, and there is a huge difference.

 

[a_unique_person]

Go back and read my post again. I said no such thing. I said they are not signs of apartheid, because they are not directed at a particular race or races "(whether they're factual or not)"

They are. There is demographic 'war' going on. Everyone knows it. This is a part of that 'war', to ensure the races are kept seperate, and to ensure Jews are the majority in the Jewish State.

Demographically, we have a problem. I want to see a Jewish state and I don’t care if I will be answered a Jewish state is not a Democratic notion. I want a Jewish state. This is why we have Zionism. Zionism was a state for the Jews all over the world, and I think this is the right thing to do. I do not see two societies living together. It’s problematic everywhere in the world. Starting from Belgium, Cyprus or wherever you want. So, I want to have a Jewish state. This is one of the reasons that Arik Sharon pulled out of Gaza and Ehud Olmert and Arik Sharon — when I started my job as national security counsel, Ehud Olmert told me in the first week, ‘prepare a plan because I’m going to continue this plan in the West Bank.’ And then the war in Lebanon and the abduction came. So, strategically, I think this is a major issue.

http://israel.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2011/01/17/interview-with-mizrahi-part-2-peace/

 

[Skeptic]

Perhaps some need it to be complicated so that in that obfuscation they can find a satisfactorily exculpatory justification to assuage their conscience from some difficulties of cognitive dissonance that might occasionally arise as a result of supporting the insatiably bloodthirsty and murderous in the name of peace.

I won't be surprised. Look at the way communists scream and holler at the evils of capitalism. The more obvious communism's murderous failure became, the more they smeared capitalism -- because otherwise they'll have to admit they supported murderous thugs because they fell for their propaganda.

 

[Skeptic]

are you now claiming to be an expert on canadian constitutional law?

No, he is claiming to be using the same "standard" of proof you use to "prove" Israel is an "apartheid state" can just as easily be used to "prove" Canada is an "apartheid state". That is is a junk standard that makes every country in the world an "apartheid" state is precisely his point.

But you hate the Israel so you use that standard against it, while you for some reason love theocratic terrorist organizations so you don't use that, or any standard, against them -- even when, like Hamas and the PLO, they openly call for genocide and ethnic cleansing.

 

[Virus]

They are. There is demographic 'war' going on. Everyone knows it. This is a part of that 'war', to ensure the races are kept seperate, and to ensure Jews are the majority in the Jewish State.

Well duh why wouldn't Jews want to be a majority in a Jewish state?

Who the hell would want to be a minority in an Arab state?

 

[bigjelmapro]

Well duh why wouldn't Jews want to be a majority in a Jewish state?

Who the hell would want to be a minority in an Arab state?

But this is apparently apartheid to aup. He's ignored all the other responses.

Cue the one liner...

 

[a_unique_person]

Well duh why wouldn't Jews want to be a majority in a Jewish state?

The devil is in the detail.

 

[Skeptic]

Right now the Palestinians are demanding that a Palestinian state be cleared of all Jews, yet we hear not one word of condemnation about apartheid from the usual folks. Because there are no Jews to blame, you see.

 

[Skeptic]

Funny how AUP doesn't mention the Arab goal in this demographic 'war' -- the eradication of Israel by making the Jews, first a minority, and then expelling them (as happened in the rest of the Arab world).

It seems to show something about the Arab goals, and yet AUP supports them, and is shocked that the Jews might act against this goal.

It goes to show that yet again, the real goal AUP supports is that the Arabs have the right to destroy Israel without the Jews offering any resistance.

 

[The Fool]

Funny how AUP doesn't mention the Arab goal in this demographic 'war' -- the eradication of Israel by making the Jews, first a minority, and then expelling them (as happened in the rest of the Arab world).

It seems to show something about the Arab goals, and yet AUP supports them, and is shocked that the Jews might act against this goal.

It goes to show that yet again, the real goal AUP supports is that the Arabs have the right to destroy Israel without the Jews offering any resistance.

The world would not tolerate Israel expelling all arabs....would it?

 

[The Fool]

It goes to show that yet again, the real goal AUP supports is that the Arabs have the right to destroy Israel without the Jews offering any resistance.

you constantly want to tell this scary story of Israels destruction. Apparently this critical amount of Arabs in Israel is a number you won't reveal....so...your real goal is revealed as wanting to take war actions against your own citizens if they breed too much....or more than a level you know but won't tell.

that how it works?

 

[a_unique_person]

Funny how AUP doesn't mention the Arab goal in this demographic 'war' -- the eradication of Israel by making the Jews, first a minority, and then expelling them (as happened in the rest of the Arab world).

It seems to show something about the Arab goals, and yet AUP supports them, and is shocked that the Jews might act against this goal.

It goes to show that yet again, the real goal AUP supports is that the Arabs have the right to destroy Israel without the Jews offering any resistance.

No.

 

[bikerdruid]

No, he is claiming to be using the same "standard" of proof you use to "prove" Israel is an "apartheid state" can just as easily be used to "prove" Canada is an "apartheid state". That is is a junk standard that makes every country in the world an "apartheid" state is precisely his point.

But you hate the Israel so you use that standard against it, while you for some reason love theocratic terrorist organizations so you don't use that, or any standard, against them -- even when, like Hamas and the PLO, they openly call for genocide and ethnic cleansing.

canada does not...
-routinely kill its minorities.
- steal land from its citizens (any more).
- blockade millions of muslims in a prison camp.

however, israel does all of these things.