Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,610
Massei motivations succinctly summarized
Thanks for a good summary.
RoseMontague,
Thanks for a good summary.
Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case
- Thread starter Justinian2
- Start date
- Status
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,610
good one
LIS. Thanks for the citation on Meredith and Amanda on the 30th, as well as the chuckle.
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,610
Williams and Douglas
Can you be more specific with respect to what you mean by parallels?
For starters, I think it is interesting that Mr. Douglas does not believe that Williams is guilty of all of the murders in which he is a suspect. Douglas wrote, "We saw that there were about 10-12 cases that in our opinion were related. This was based on victimology, geographical area, cause of death , method of disposal, etc. When the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the FBI did their own forensic analysis they discovered the presence of hairs and fibers on only those 10-12 victims....we ran test runs using both white and black undercover officers to see if children would go with them if they offered money. The results showed that the children would in fact go with anyone for money." For another, it sounds to me as if Mr. Douglas is doing tests. Your comparison to psychics doesn't hold in this instance. MOO.
shuttlt,
Can you be more specific with respect to what you mean by parallels?
For starters, I think it is interesting that Mr. Douglas does not believe that Williams is guilty of all of the murders in which he is a suspect. Douglas wrote, "We saw that there were about 10-12 cases that in our opinion were related. This was based on victimology, geographical area, cause of death , method of disposal, etc. When the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the FBI did their own forensic analysis they discovered the presence of hairs and fibers on only those 10-12 victims....we ran test runs using both white and black undercover officers to see if children would go with them if they offered money. The results showed that the children would in fact go with anyone for money." For another, it sounds to me as if Mr. Douglas is doing tests. Your comparison to psychics doesn't hold in this instance. MOO.
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,610
a new analogy
Dan Krane said words to the effect, "The science of DNA profiling is sound, but not all DNA profiling is sound science." In other words, there is quality work and shoddy work. Implying that John Douglas's work in the Williams case is akin to what a psychic would have done without criticizing PM Mignini's or Dr. Giobbi's work in this case is like attempting to refute Drs. Johnson, Hampikian, and Krane with back-of-the-envelope calculations yet staying quiet as a church mouse with respect to Dr. Stefanoni.
shuttlt,
Dan Krane said words to the effect, "The science of DNA profiling is sound, but not all DNA profiling is sound science." In other words, there is quality work and shoddy work. Implying that John Douglas's work in the Williams case is akin to what a psychic would have done without criticizing PM Mignini's or Dr. Giobbi's work in this case is like attempting to refute Drs. Johnson, Hampikian, and Krane with back-of-the-envelope calculations yet staying quiet as a church mouse with respect to Dr. Stefanoni.
With Shawcross they thought he might return to the scene, set up surveillance and got lucky. Fuchs got stopped by police for other reasons and tried to blow himself up. I'm not sure these are particularly impressive. Anyway, we could trade studies all day.
If you want to have a proper derail about profiling, I suggest another thread. If we decouple it from Knox you might be able to get other people involved. I will gladly participate.
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,610
parallels
I brought up Mr. Douglas in the context of this case, and you criticized his field. IMO, it is not a derail to ask you to clarify what you mean.
shuttlt,
I brought up Mr. Douglas in the context of this case, and you criticized his field. IMO, it is not a derail to ask you to clarify what you mean.
In my view it is a derail if we are going to genuinely assess the worth of his field in order to decide on his authority for a quote that I don't disagree with. Most JREF members wouldn't touch this thread if you paid them. If you are genuinely interested in discussing criminal profiling it would be better to do it on another thread.
Right now I don't have time (despite my post count) to do more than bounce posts, studies and quotes back and forth with you as we are doing at the moment. If you want to continue with that, then OK. To answer an essay question like "what parallels are there between criminal profiling and psychics?" requires more time.
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,610
Dan O.
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,594
shuttlt, Massei gives a detailed explanation on how the Italian "experts" searched for activity on the computer in the time frame of the murder. The Encase software looked only at the files with timestamps on the night and morning after the murder. Files such as system logs were overlooked because they had timestamps after that period. From this inconclusive data they declared in court that "After 21:10:32 on 1-November up until 05:32:09 on 2-November, there was no user-activity verified on the Apple MacBook PRO. (Massei [328])
It's interesting that these same experts had noted that the Mac OS kept track of a "last opened" time for "Amelie" that was different than the "last access" time that Encase was reporting but they didn't bother investigating this further where they would have discovered the file "Naruto ep 101.avi" was last opened at 21:26 on 1-November.
These experts also ignored completely the system log files that have plain text time stamps.
Did these "experts" present false testimony in court or simply demonstrate their incompetence?
Going to places together rather than with these other friends does show they were friends.
Dan O.
What they did seems fair enough as a phase one activity. It seems similar in some ways to discovery activities I've been involved with in that you agree a set of search criteria and retrieve all the stuff that matches. For us it's a data protection thing as much as anything. At the same time it's the kind of thing that almost anybody could do. Hunting through the various system and application logs takes more skill and knowledge. If phase two never happened then it shows a lack of curiosity or basic knowledge by pretty much everyone.
What they did seems fair enough as a phase one activity. It seems similar in some ways to discovery activities I've been involved with in that you agree a set of search criteria and retrieve all the stuff that matches. For us it's a data protection thing as much as anything. At the same time it's the kind of thing that almost anybody could do. Hunting through the various system and application logs takes more skill and knowledge. If phase two never happened then it shows a lack of curiosity or basic knowledge by pretty much everyone.
Last edited:
The testimony of mutual friends would be better I think. The more one has the better though I suppose.
pilot padron
Muse
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2010
- Messages
- 690
Friends; to be or not to be... for 50,001st time
To agenda driven minds, even more desperate lately to find any straws to prop up objections to a unanimous jury decision about a murderess, to now include what a guy fully convicted of beating a child to death with a shovel has to say, perhaps what you argue is acceptable.
To most others, however, rather than building such a house of cards founded on a picture that shows nothing more than people in the same place at the same time, may I suggest a review of the sworn testimony of these same people as well as Filomena, a much longer and better positioned observer for a direct denial of your purported 'friendship'.
To agenda driven minds, even more desperate lately to find any straws to prop up objections to a unanimous jury decision about a murderess, to now include what a guy fully convicted of beating a child to death with a shovel has to say, perhaps what you argue is acceptable.
To most others, however, rather than building such a house of cards founded on a picture that shows nothing more than people in the same place at the same time, may I suggest a review of the sworn testimony of these same people as well as Filomena, a much longer and better positioned observer for a direct denial of your purported 'friendship'.
Computer ( yet, Yet ,again)
It is very simple, and yet you do not get it.
you switch on your computer, time recorded. that means the computer is booting up, hardware keyboard, but what apple has done, which is lights up the key board, and have placed a timer on for the key board, which you can time how long the lights timer stays on.
This is then sent to a different file, away from the main start up file, this will take micro seconds, but this timer will show the time "and" date when the key board was last used.
other words it is not in the main start up file, the keyboard file is in a file of its own makeing.
Simple and sweet.
And my hat of to Apple, a job well done.
It is very simple, and yet you do not get it.
you switch on your computer, time recorded. that means the computer is booting up, hardware keyboard, but what apple has done, which is lights up the key board, and have placed a timer on for the key board, which you can time how long the lights timer stays on.
This is then sent to a different file, away from the main start up file, this will take micro seconds, but this timer will show the time "and" date when the key board was last used.
other words it is not in the main start up file, the keyboard file is in a file of its own makeing.
Simple and sweet.
And my hat of to Apple, a job well done.
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- May 12, 2010
- Messages
- 21,162
So, pilot padron, what did Filomena say in testimony that implied a breakdown in the friendship between Amanda and Meredith? These reports suggest that all she said was that they had somewhat drifted apart due to differing interests (presumably including new boyfriends for both girls).
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29071255/
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/International/story?id=6826939&page=1
Filomena is quoted in the second article as explicitly saying that, in her view, Meredith and Amanda had no reason not to get along, and that there had been (to her knowledge) no specific falling out. So perhaps you can point us towards the testimony you seem to be referring to.
Furthermore, Meredith's Italian boyfriend, Giacomo Silenzi, testified in court that Amanda and Meredith had a relationship that was "normal and friendly". He said that there had been some mild complaints about the cleaning of the cottage, but that Amanda, Meredith and he had shared dinner together and spent time together in the period leading up towards the murder (Massei, p39).
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,610
body dump
From this link about the 1989 Shawcross case, "A further escalation of behavior in later crimes led Gregg to suggest secretly surveilling a newly discovered body dump site to which he felt the killer would return. This strategy ultimately led to the capture of Arthur Shawcross. See also the statement of Det. John J. Baeza, NYPD (ret.): 'Arguably, this may be one of the only cases in which profiling actually assisted in the apprehension of an offender.'" I would like to know more, but the suggestion from this article is that profiling helped them with the decision to set up surveillance.
shuttlt.
From this link about the 1989 Shawcross case, "A further escalation of behavior in later crimes led Gregg to suggest secretly surveilling a newly discovered body dump site to which he felt the killer would return. This strategy ultimately led to the capture of Arthur Shawcross. See also the statement of Det. John J. Baeza, NYPD (ret.): 'Arguably, this may be one of the only cases in which profiling actually assisted in the apprehension of an offender.'" I would like to know more, but the suggestion from this article is that profiling helped them with the decision to set up surveillance.
pilot padron
Muse
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2010
- Messages
- 690
Your documentation proves little other than a previously self aggrandized skill in filling in Google blanks.
From the documentation below, admittedly similarly obtained, several examples are cited that pretty much paint the same 'relationship' I originally posted, and directly contradict yours.
Example: Filomena *testifying* (not same as in an article) that they 'had issues' before even your 'drifting apart' quote.
This seems hardly able to be termed, or even parsed* to be 'friends'
Per haps the best end to this 'hunt Google, then holler here' exercise is that Meredith's friends were witnesses for the Prosecution...hardly 'friendly' no matter how parsed* or how exhaustively Internet is scoured for words/pictures of close companionship.
*parse=to examine in a minute way : analyze critically
kindly spare us all and address your continued erroneous criticism of correct meaning here: http://thesaurus.com/browse/parse
1) Amanda was a flirt with the men and Meredith didn't see eye to eye with her. The two were like chalk and cheese - totally opposite in character. Meredith was calm, sweet and shy. Amanda was an extrovert and always showing off."
Other friends recalled how Miss Kercher had argued with Miss Knox about her personal hygiene and her failure to do her share of the household chores, as well as being unhappy with the number of men Miss Knox brought back to the villa.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...anda-Knox-trial-Meredith-Kercher-profile.html
2) Seven friends of British student Meredith Kercher will tomorrow give evidence in her murder trial as the case continues.
Sophie Purton, Amy Frost, Natalie Hayworth, Jade Bidwell, Samantha Rodenhurst, Helen Powell and Robyn Butterworth are key to the prosecution.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...hs-friends-prepare-testify.html#ixzz1NrIUe6pX
3)The testimony of Miss Butterworth and other friends of Miss Kercher prompted a dramatic intervention by Knox.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...rediths-friends-claim-emotionless-murder.html)
4)Filomena testified that Meredith and Amanda had begun to have issues with each other.
www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/P30/ - Cached)
As another poster pointed out, and my title insinuated, we have been down this dusty road several times before and positions are unchanged.
Other than providing more fodder for unsolicited spelling/grammar lessons from others, I find the subject adequately beaten and politely end participation in this elementary Google contest.
Last edited:
Kaosium
Philosopher
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2010
- Messages
- 6,695
Very interesting article, and it touches on something recently discussed, the covering up of Meredith's body. Police in Perugia said this was an indication that the killer was female, whereas this article suggests another likelihood, that Rudy Guede felt remorse. I don't bring this up in any way to defend him, or what he did, but because it touches on another thing I'd wondered about: why this 'inveterate liar,' as he has been described, did not completely 'play ball with the law' and attempt to totally implicate Raffaele and Amanda, something they definitely would have appreciated from him considering their lack of evidence and the apparent unlikelihood of the crime as prosecuted.
Whether after three years in jail this would still hold is another thing, especially considering it is probably a little different for him where he is than what Amanda is enduring, as reports would suggest, however also there's indications from some of his fellow inmates that he has admitted that Raffaele and Amanda weren't involved. Now certainly some might question the reliability of that information, considering the crimes the ones saying so are convicted of, however I don't find it all that unlikely personally, though I realize it's hardly going to 'prove' anything to anyone.
I really do wonder what Rudy Guede might say on the stand though, if he were ever summoned, and I think that not impossible considering how little the prosecution has to present to the jury. They might even try to propose a deal with him, however something occurred to me: Rudy Guede is going to have to live with the sort that would be testifying against him, he's not going to be living with Mignini, as even if he goes to jail like he damn well deserves I'm sure they'll find more...comfortable accommodations. Even if they did make a deal with him I cannot help but wonder if Rudy might admit on the stand that they had nothing to do with it, like he purportedly told a number of people in prison...
- Status