Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[little grey rabbit]

Funny how quick you moved on. Still cant beat the diary can you. Primary source, no manipulation, no mention of Trebinka.

And dont try and claim some Australian affinity - you dont deserve it. Australia has more than had enough of pond scum. It is why the laws that exist...do

What laws might this be? Certainly not insider trading laws, because I know folks break those every day.

However, I digress, you poor fool - nothing would delight me more than if the diary you found online was from the same person writing newspaper articles about Treblinka II in early June 1942. But the spelling of the names is distinctly different and LemmyCaution was so concerned that he appears to have contacted the Jewish Historical Institute in Warsaw to sort your error out.

Let me quote his excellent and informed rebuttal of your howler

This is confusing me. Gutkowski has to have been Eliayhu Gutkowski, no? Member of Right Poalei Zion and one of the secretaries to Oyneg Shabes. Szlamek was someone else entirely: according to Kassow he was probably Shlomo Fajner but may have been Shlomo Bajler. His testimony of Chelmno was recorded by Hersh Wasser, who called him Jacob Grojanowksi to conceal his identity. This was the name Szlamek had taken after his escape from Chelmno as he made his way to Warsaw.

It was Szlamek's nephew, Abram Beiler or Bajler, who informed the OS by postcard that Szalmek had been deported from Zamosc (to Belzec?) after he'd moved on from Warsaw.

I do not believe that Szlamek has any connection to Treblinka, the labor camp of which was well known in Warsaw by winter 1941-1942; as Jews from cities and small towns around Poland were being deported, OS activists were trying to determine to where. They were receiving reports of Belzec and Sobibor at this time as well as information about construction of a similar camp near Warsaw. Anyway, I don't think Gutkowski was another pseudonym of Szlamek.

So I now await your apology for your accusation that I fabricated quotes.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Is it just me, or does he go for the bakery argument when he's clearly losing?

When he made a fool of himself on OSR 24, he managed to claim that Krema Denial still goes strong. And KD is just another term for Bakeries.

 

[MG1962]

What laws might this be? Certainly not insider trading laws, because I know folks break those every day..

Dont give up your day job...funny not so much. But hey if you are confused go ask the Adelaide institute. They are about your level. Or maybe you think you can ride with the big boys, Innes and his toerags always love the idea of wannabes to do their dirty work.

And sorry I dont owe anyone an apology. You claim the writings spoke of Treblinka. Clearly they didn't - just because you wont look at primary sources is not my problem, just proof of the sloppy intellectual work thats your hallmark

 

[little grey rabbit]

When he made a fool of himself on OSR 24, he managed to claim that Krema Denial still goes strong. And KD is just another term for Bakeries.

Actually I am pretty confident OSR24 refers to the one and only provocation at Vilna - there was a reason why this report
http://madness-visible.blogspot.com/2011/02/great-and-small-provocations-in.html
had been miss-filed to look like it was early September.

But of course, Krema Denial is always my core business.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Dont give up your day job...funny not so much. But hey if you are confused go ask the Adelaide institute. They are about your level. Or maybe you think you can ride with the big boys, Innes and his toerags always love the idea of wannabes to do their dirty work.

And sorry I dont owe anyone an apology. You claim the writings spoke of Treblinka. Clearly they didn't - just because you wont look at primary sources is not my problem, just proof of the sloppy intellectual work thats your hallmark

So let me understand you correctly, you are claiming this

At that time, ie in late May and early June 1942, the clandestine press pbublished reports on two camps in Treblinka: the labor camp and the death camp. The first reference to the killing center there is to be found in a text by Gutkowski entitled "The Scroll of Agony and Destruction," which probably consitutes the draft of an Oneg Shabbat press bulletin. In the entry dated May 29, 1942, we read: "There are two camps in Treblinka: a labor camp and a death camp. In the death camp people are not murdered by shooting (the criminals are saving ammunition), but by means of a lethal rod [in the Yiddish original: troytshtekn]" This item, without mention of the "lethal rod," was printed on June 2, 1942 by the newspaper Yedies. The next issue of that paper, dated June 9, 1942, carried an article entitled "The Death Camp in Tremblinka[sic]." In it we read:
A Pole who managed to bribe his way out of the camp relates: "I worked with the German personnel of the labor camp. The Poles present there were assigned the task of digging huge pits. The Germans brought a group of about 300 Jews every day. They were ordered to undress and get into the pit. The Poles then had to cover the pits with soil, burying the people there alive. After they finished their work, they were shot.
Despite the close proximity of Treblinka to Warsaw, reports coming from the camps there were inaccurate and partially misleading. This applies above all to the famous "lethal rod".

does not refer to Treblinka?????

And so we don't go round in circles, I won't add the testimony of the Great Bore of Treblinka, Robert Levi, who seems not to have noticed these goings on.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Its a shame their camera stop working and they failed to capture anything else of interest in the camp. The only high resolution immediate post-liberation photos don't show anything compatible with that image.

Do you mean these photos that you deny exist?

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp35.jpg

Why are there human bones in the above photo of human ash?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/09/article-1355086-0D178B31000005DC-624_634x434.jpg

http://wapedia.mobi/thumb/4176501/en/fixed/400/293/Treblinkagrave.jpg?format=jpg

 

[little grey rabbit]

Do you mean these photos that you deny exist?

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp35.jpg

Why are there human bones in the above photo of human ash?

I don't believe that your two photos relate to each other, ie that photo is not the surface view of the photo of the interior of a pit you posted previously.

There was and still is an excellent pit about 1.5 kms down the road that doubtless would have made a good photo opportunity - a rather large industrial scale gravel pit.

As for the bones, I presume someone put them there, who or why is not really a great concern of mine. They aren't really adequate proof that there were 700 000 Jews buried at Treblinka.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Actually I am pretty confident OSR24 refers to the one and only provocation at Vilna - there was a reason why this report
http://madness-visible.blogspot.com/2011/02/great-and-small-provocations-in.html
had been miss-filed to look like it was early September.

But of course, Krema Denial is always my core business.

Umlauts, not umlausts. And you have bupkes. How long oh lord how long must we wait?

 

[MG1962]

So let me understand you correctly, you are claiming this


does not refer to Treblinka?????

And so we don't go round in circles, I won't add the testimony of the Great Bore of Treblinka, Robert Levi, who seems not to have noticed these goings on.

tut tut you really do need to try a lot harder - I gave you the orginal text. Why don't you quote from it?

 

[MG1962]

As for the bones, I presume someone put them there, who or why is not really a great concern of mine. They aren't really adequate proof that there were 700 000 Jews buried at Treblinka.

You really need to coordinate the lies, earlier on this page Dogy claimed the holohoax said a million. So which is it?

 

[MG1962]

My fat fingers....
Tell me LemmyCaution, does MG1962 cause you deep embarrassment?.

So why dont you quote from the original document and prove all things you claim about me?

 

[dafydd]

You really need to coordinate the lies, earlier on this page Dogy claimed the holohoax said a million. So which is it?

That's a thought. Real historians all say the the same thing because they know the history. How many versions of the Holocaust do the deniers have?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

As for the bones, I presume someone put them there, who or why is not really a great concern of mine.

I see...so the holocaust denier working theory is.... "someone" drove to Treblinka, placed 20,000 square metres of human ash in piles, then dug up the burial pits to add human bones and covered the pits again so the the Polish investigation team would find the body parts.

Do holocaust deniers think holocaust denier Ernst Zundel's UFO aliens did this?
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/z/zundel-ernst/flying-saucers/expedition.html

Wouldn't it have been easier to simply use the human ash and bones that the Nazi's left at Treblinka extermination camp from the approximately 815,000 people executed and cremated there? Let's ask the commanding officer of Treblinka...
Franz Stangl "it was always a huge mass… they were naked, packed together, running, being driven with whips" & "I think it started the day I first saw the Totenlager in Treblinka. I remember Wirth standing there, next to the pits full of blue-black corpses.

 

[Dogzilla]

And we should believed you why?

I'm not sure I believe that the only high resolution photograph immediate post-liberation don't show anything compatible with that image either. I can't think of any high resolution photographs that were taken post-liberation unless you're talking about one of the variations of this one.

 

[Dogzilla]

Must explain why fire-starting guides describe burning green wood as "a pretty simple process" and warn homeowners not to use fresh wood in fireplaces on account on the creosote deposits it leaves when burnt. This is another old gambit thoroughly debunked time and again. Even bunny is running on empty at this point. Look at the lot of them: Wiesel, wells, fresh wood, lie-witnesses: Can the flues be far behind? Will bunny ever get to OSR 24, you wait til you see his case on that, many months in the making it seems.

Must source fire-starting guides that describe burning green wood as a "a pretty simple process."

The warning to homeowners is probably because trying to burn fresh cut wood results in a slow burning, low temperature fire in which incomplete combustion of the oils in the wood results in out gassing of volatile chemicals which cling to the side of the chimney.

 

[little grey rabbit]

I'm not sure I believe that the only high resolution photograph immediate post-liberation don't show anything compatible with that image either. I can't think of any high resolution photographs that were taken post-liberation unless you're talking about one of the variations of this one.

There up some excellent high resolution images from 1944.
Like this
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/p15.jpg
There are some good images of the fence, gate and rail lines. It is only when they approach mass graves to Soviet cameras throw a hissy fit.

 

[MG1962]

Must source fire-starting guides that describe burning green wood as a "a pretty simple process."

Well you could start with the Australian continent

 

[little grey rabbit]

Here is another high quality 1944 image
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp37.jpg

Most of the turned up earth images seem to come from 1945 - and I have seen nothing that matches the "men inside the pit" photo.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Well you could start with the Australian continent

Is there any subject that you can't show yourself to be ignorant and ill-informed about?

Just about every Aussies know the role fire traditionally played in forest ecology - you must spent your life stuck in Prahan
This is Kinglake :
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_551/1288342979vlkfTs.jpg

 

[kageki]

I see...so the holocaust denier working theory is.... "someone" drove to Treblinka, placed 20,000 square metres of human ash in piles, then dug up the burial pits to add human bones and covered the pits again so the the Polish investigation team would find the body parts.

Do holocaust deniers think holocaust denier Ernst Zundel's UFO aliens did this?
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/z/zundel-ernst/flying-saucers/expedition.html

Wouldn't it have been easier to simply use the human ash and bones that the Nazi's left at Treblinka extermination camp from the approximately 815,000 people executed and cremated there? Let's ask the commanding officer of Treblinka...
Franz Stangl "it was always a huge mass… they were naked, packed together, running, being driven with whips" & "I think it started the day I first saw the Totenlager in Treblinka. I remember Wirth standing there, next to the pits full of blue-black corpses.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/z/zundel-ernst/flying-saucers/expedition.html

SAMISDAT is the only organization making such an effort, but we are not
alone, for we have thousands of supporters like yourself who want to know the truth which the saucer-charlatans have for 30 years tried to cover up with fairy tale fantasies of 'little green men'.

That is a clear refutation of aliens. The whole thing about Nazi UFOs is that he believes they were made by German scientists (humans). Maybe you should try reading?

I thought bones were crushed? Did they just not bother or have the time at Treblinka?