Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[PhantomWolf]

See repeated 'title'

How about instead you answer the question. I asked you who he lied to, you responded, to a diary. As such I want to know how one lies to a diary. A lie is an untruth told in an attempt to fool someone, it's not possible to fool a diary, so how do you lie it exactly?

Of course if you want to change your answer on who he lied to, then we can avoid the whole determining how one can lie to a book thing.

 

[platonov]

How about instead you answer the question. I asked you who he lied to, you responded, to a diary. As such I want to know how one lies to a diary. A lie is an untruth told in an attempt to fool someone, it's not possible to fool a diary, so how do you lie it exactly?

Of course if you want to change your answer on who he lied to, then we can avoid the whole determining how one can lie to a book thing.

See my previous post.

Now having dealt with your strongest argument I shall move on

 

[shuttlt]

Touch DNA transfer is definitely an existing and proven phenomenon

But Amanda does have to have gotten Merediths DNA on to her to transfer it without getting it muddled up in anybody else's DNA or drowned out in her own. I guess it can happen, but it seems a bit of a stretch to me.

 

[Draca]

halides1 was referring to Charlie Wilkes but I will answer the question.

Unfortunately I have little hope that this injustice will be corrected in Perugia. I do believe this will eventually be corrected by either the Supreme Court or as the result of an agreement reached between governments.

Bruce, I know that Charlie is thinking pessimistic. I didn't know you thought this way also. I am optimistic at this time. There are lawmakers calling for a probe of the prosecution office, even before the appeal is over. Toto is gone. I believe the knife and bra clasp will be gone also. If the DNA experts confirm Stefanoni's DNA work that will be a different story, but I don't think it will happen - too low, too low, too low, too low, too low, too low, too low, too low of a chance of that happening.

 

[RoseMontague]

Bruce, I know that Charlie is thinking pessimistic. I didn't know you thought this way also. I am optimistic at this time. There are lawmakers calling for a probe of the prosecution office, even before the appeal is over. Toto is gone. I believe the knife and bra clasp will be gone also. If the DNA experts confirm Stefanoni's DNA work that will be a different story, but I don't think it will happen - too low, too low, too low, too low, too low, too low, too low, too low of a chance of that happening.

I think the reasons to be optimistic have grown considerably since the beginning of the appeal process. I don't understand the pessimism either.

 

[Dan O.]

If

It's called a conditional^WP. You should read up on it some day.

 

[PhantomWolf]

See my previous post.

Now having dealt with your strongest argument I shall move on

You have a very funny way of dealing with things, you simply refuse to answer the question in a sensible manner and then declare victory.

Care to answer the question and tell us all who RS lied to?

 

[Katody Matrass]

But Amanda does have to have gotten Merediths DNA on to her to transfer it without getting it muddled up in anybody else's DNA or drowned out in her own. I guess it can happen, but it seems a bit of a stretch to me.

I agree that it's not the most probable factors of all. I personally think it's either an artifact result of cranking up the machine or an accidental touch transfer at the questura, where they by all accounts took it out of the envelope and repackaged. Given what we know and saw I don't believe much caution was exerted to prevent such contamination.

 

[platonov]

skidding not spinning

You have a very funny way of dealing with things, you simply refuse to answer the question in a sensible manner and then declare victory.

Care to answer the question and tell us all who RS lied to?

His prison 'diary' IIRC - but not before said 'diary' had injected 'internalized false memories' into him while he was under duress.

I fear the cartwheel is skidding not spinning - ala humbers explanation of the DDW cart - on this occasion

ETA See Link for further answers.

 

[shuttlt]

It's called a conditional^WP. You should read up on it some day.

Your post, starting with an if, made me think of the Spartans, that's all.

 

[PhantomWolf]

His prison 'diary' IIRC - but not before said 'diary' had injected 'internalized false memories' into him while he was under duress.

I fear the cartwheel is skidding not spinning - ala humbers explanation of the DDW cart - on this occasion

And as pointed out before, you can't lie to a book, it's an inanimate object.

I want to know WHO, which person, or group of people, ie, Humans, not chairs, tables, or books, did RS lie to.

I already knew that he wrote it in his diary, but that doesn't answer the question of WHO he lied to.

 

[shuttlt]

I agree that it's not the most probable factors of all. I personally think it's either an artifact result of cranking up the machine

It does look like her profile though. Doubtless it would be possible to get some kind of an idea of the odds if it was important.

or an accidental touch transfer at the questura, where they by all accounts took it out of the envelope and repackaged. Given what we know and saw I don't believe much caution was exerted to prevent such contamination.

It still seems odd to me that it was clean contamination, if you see what I mean.

 

[shuttlt]

And as pointed out before, you can't lie to a book, it's an inanimate object.

I want to know WHO, which person, or group of people, ie, Humans, not chairs, tables, or books, did RS lie to.

I already knew that he wrote it in his diary, but that doesn't answer the question of WHO he lied to.

One would have to know why he wrote his diary to answer that one. I don't see why he would write a made up explanation in his diary unless he expected somebody else to read it. Presumably it was them that he intended to "lie" to.

 

[Antony]

I know this nonsense is not coming from your but rather from super agent Steve Moore, but you posted it. After 5-10 minutes of research both you and I could come up with dozens of murder cases where the killer showed no violent tendencies before committing murder.

Do it then, and post the results. Not that it would make up for the lack of evidence implicating Amanda and Raffaele, but if you can't do it then their non-violent character is another strong indicator that they're not the murderers.

 

[shuttlt]

I think the reasons to be optimistic have grown considerably since the beginning of the appeal process. I don't understand the pessimism either.

The Fatty Arbuckle trial was mentioned on TV the other night. At his second trial the defense was so confident about how overwhelming the evidence was in vindicating him that they didn't mount an effective defense and he came within a whisker of being convicted. He had to wait for a third trial before he got off.

Let's hope the defense make a decent job of presenting their case.

 

[Katody Matrass]

It does look like her profile though. Doubtless it would be possible to get some kind of an idea of the odds if it was important.

Cranking up the machine reveals that the lab's not 100% pure - that's how I see it.

It still seems odd to me that it was clean contamination, if you see what I mean.

Yes I see. That somewhat fits an "accident at questura", despite using clean gloves accidents can happen There's also a question how much of a mixture can we have at such low levels of DNA material.

 

[PhantomWolf]

One would have to know why he wrote his diary to answer that one. I don't see why he would write a made up explanation in his diary unless he expected somebody else to read it. Presumably it was them that he intended to "lie" to.

Well this is the question, did he expect others were to read it, or like most diaries, was it written with the expectation of privacy. Merely saying that you don't think he would have written it if it was to stay private isn't actually evidence that anyone else would normally have read it, and that he expected others to read it. That you're going to have to prove.

 

[shuttlt]

Do it then, and post the results. Not that it would make up for the lack of evidence implicating Amanda and Raffaele, but if you can't do it then their non-violent character is another strong indicator that they're not the murderers.

A bit of a silly example, but Shipman went from one slap on the wrist for self prescribing to 200+ murders without much in between, didn't he?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

Judging by Wikipedia Bonnie Parker seemed like a nice girl until she met up with Clyde:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_and_Clyde#Bonnie_Parker

 

[shuttlt]

Well this is the question, did he expect others were to read it, or like most diaries, was it written with the expectation of privacy. Merely saying that you don't think he would have written it if it was to stay private isn't actually evidence that anyone else would normally have read it, and that he expected others to read it. That you're going to have to prove.

I don't have to prove it. I think it was a stupid story he made up with the intention of trying to explain the knife. Doesn't mean he's guilty, just boneheaded, which he already established by taking a knife to a police interview.

 

[Matthew Best]

I think it was a stupid story he made up with the intention of trying to explain the knife. Doesn't mean he's guilty

At last we agree!