Pakistan abetted the Mumbai attacks

[geni]

Then perhaps we should recognize the ISI as Pakistan's government?

Problem is that the US hasn't really worked out how to deal with the ISI. It would also change the US's traditional policy of recognising the Pakistani army as the defaco ruling body (or at least the group with the most power in the country that is both vaguely competent and just about able to work with us).

 

[Joey McGee]

Pakistan is NOT a strong ally, if I am an American and reviewing my allies in various parts of the world.

I would agree with you, I merely said that we have strong allies there in the context of the article I posted. They might be in the minority but they exist.

 

[angrysoba]

Pakistan suffers from the war on terror. 30,000 dead including 3600 military and police. We have strong allies there. This situation is complex indeed, I could do no better than this article in the Financial Times today.

Thanks for posting that article. Anatol Lieven is the author of a book on Pakistan that's just been published that I was interested in. From what I've read of the reviews he seems to think that the US should cut back or end its drone warfare and fund the right elements in Pakistan to fight against the Pakistani Taliban.

This is ominous:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f1c18c96-8652-11e0-9d5c-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz1NKwVG5KG


Once the Pakistani Taliban emerged as a real threat to the Pakistani state, however, the mood changed considerably. Atrocities by the Taliban against civilians and troops helped, as has military propaganda that India is helping the Pakistani Taliban in order to destroy Pakistan. There is not a shred of evidence for this but it has done wonders for morale.

In other words, the Pakistani military rank-and-file don't want to fight for America and the general population don't seem to either. The only thing going for the US's war against the Taliban (and that's the Pakistani Taliban) is the belief - or conspiracy theory - that India are funding them to destroy Pakistan and win the war that's been going on between the two countries since Partition.

It's somewhat reassuring that Lieven doesn't think Pakistan will completely fall apart but still a bit worrying that the only reason for it not doing so is its determination not to let India be the last man standing.

I remember reading Steve Coll's book Ghost Wars a few years ago and was surprised by just how much this conflict is exacerbated by Pakistan's struggle with India over Kashmir.

Essentially, many of the terrorist camps were set up in Afghanistan with ISI assistance to train militants there against India in Kashmir. Afghanistan was also thought by Pakistan's military to give Pakistan "strategic depth" should India ever invade. Presumably the country would be able to then act as a kind of Ho Chi-Minh Trail from which its military could launch attacks against Indian forces - or something like that. But, as Ahmed Rashid has pointed out the effect has been for the Afghan Taliban to instead use Pakistan as strategic depth against US/NATO occupation. According to Lieven this is widely endorsed by the Pakistani public in general.

So, it's a big mess...

 

[angrysoba]

Here's a review of Lieven's book and another one on Pakistan that got me interested:

IT IS a shame that these books should be published at a time when the world is riveted by events in the Middle East. Pakistan’s population is more than half the size of the entire Arab world; for most of the past three decades it has been involved in a war with a superpower, first against it, and now on the same side as it; it suffers from an Islamic insurgency that has killed 30,000 people over the past four years; it is regarded by students of geopolitics as the most likely location of nuclear conflict; and the reasons why it does not work as a country are many and fascinating.

Well, it's lucky for the two books that Osama bin Laden's assassination put Pakistan back in the spotlight as well as the recent terrorist attacks such as at the Karachi military base.

http://www.economist.com/node/18526715

 

[Joey McGee]

Thanks for sharing that book, and making those points, I intend to read it, and do more research on them. It seems like a great time to get interested in world events, Osama is gone, democracy is actually a topic in the middle east, social networking is helping the youth organize, the information revolution is in full swing, the embarrassing fortunes of the Republicans is doing wonders for the forces of rationalist government. It's a good time! These things affect my heart but not my cynical soul

I wouldn't say the India CT is the only thing motivating the Pakistanis against the Taliban. They wouldn't be allowing the Taliban to terrorize them just because there's no evidence it was the Indians. It's certainly a sad fact that it appears to boost their morale so much, but that's really besides the point. The taliban are openly terrorizing them to gain control and they don't like it, they will fight against them no matter what.

Another police station today

“We will continue attacks on security forces until an Islamic system is implemented in Pakistan, because the Pakistani system is un-Islamic,”

There appears to be a lot of angles that need addressing simultaneously if we are going to work with anyone.

The wares of wikileaks...

The 9/11 attack was a Jewish conspiracy, the CIA runs the American media, MI-5 runs the BBC: commonplace conspiracy theories on the Internet and, as a U.S. military officer found out while he attended a course at one of Pakistan's premier military education institutes, common too among senior officers of the Pakistan military.

And they say conspiracy theories are harmless. I would rather prefer this not be the case.

 

[WildCat]

I wouldn't say the India CT is the only thing motivating the Pakistanis against the Taliban. They wouldn't be allowing the Taliban to terrorize them just because there's no evidence it was the Indians.

Many Pakistanis blame not the Taliban for the terrorist attacks, but Jews.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

How many?

 

[WildCat]

How many?

It's a popular enough conspiracy theory there that even the Pakistani army publicly blames Israel for Taliban atrocities:

The military on Tuesday dropped pamphlets with images of Taliban brutality, before a possible military operation in North Waziristan. The pamphlet gave a detailed account of Taliban power deriving from links with “anti-Islamic (Indian) RAW and (Israeli) Mossad intelligence agencies and Indian consulates in Afghanistan.” It also informed the tribal people about the Taliban’s source of income, which is mainly generated from drug smugglers and “contacts” (India and Israel).

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010\03\03\story_3-3-2010_pg7_2

Winning hearts and minds by blaming the Jews, as well as India of course.