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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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mortimer said:
I'm not insunuating it. You compare Virus' suggestion that those who started the war against Israel to pay reparations to those affected by it, to American Jews compensating Holocaust victims. Care to explain how there's any way you are not suggesting America (or really, American Jews) started the Holocaust? Or do you care to retract your comparison?
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maybe you could first establish that the various arab states "started" the 48 war? That would be the best approach in my opinion. Its my view that the conflict and fighting had been going on for quite some time and the "start date" of the 48 war has been arbitrarily set at the point that arab armies crossed into the "disputed areas" but for some reason its not set at the earlier date when "israeli" forces crossed into these areas..
 
Jonnyclueless said:
The discrepancy between the headline and the contents does not indicate which is correct -- perhaps the headline being based upon later information for example. It is left to the reader. Rest assured I will post follow-ups.

There is no question it is being considered for classification as a terror attack meaning at the least all shootings, even in the commission of a crime, of Palestinians by Jews should be considered for classification as jewish terrorism.

That Frum character speaks only for himself so his words are meaningless. Besides, he lives in Hebron so he is a war criminal needing to be hanged. In any event he is fair game for the resistance according to international law.
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Jonnyclueless said:
Why does Israel need to go anywhere? What kind of question is that?
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Do you really think the world is going to let Israel continue with its tyrannical dictatorship over the Palestinians forever?

Come September at least 150 nations are going to recognize Palestine opening the way for diplomatic, legal and financial sanctions by them against Israel. In another post I list more possible actions. Given Israel's attitude towards the US lately it appears to want to go it alone without US support.

There is also a better than even chance the US will not veto its admission to the UN. That will immediately make the situation the same as between Iraq and Kuwait in 1991.

Also, why do the Palestinians need to discuss land before making a state? In these negotiations, Israel will be changing it's borders, yet it's already a state.
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There is nothing to negotiate. Netanyahu took every issue off the table with his rejectionist speech.

Much like the question of why Jordan, Egypt, and Syria didn't create a Palestine state when they had taken control of the land, what is stopping them from creating their own state?
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While I agree Israel is no better than Jordan you do not appear to understand the subject you are attempting to discuss. The government is recognized not the land.

What will be gained in September is all but a couple dozens countries recognizing the present Palestinian government as the only lawful government of the land beyond the 1948 borders of Israel. That is an automatic recognition of Israel as an unlawful occupying power which must leave ASAP.
 
Virus said:
If the Palestinians want reparations for fleeing the 1948 war then the Arab states can pay it. After all, they started it.
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Jews started stealing the land in 1949. It had nothing to do with the war. It was just plain jewish greed. It remains simple greed in keeping the stolen property. It is greed while jews continue to steal more land every day.

Jews started stealing their personal possessions such as clothing and home furnishings in 1948. Again, jewish greed.

Of course, anyone that's paying attention knows it's not about reparations, or states, or borders, or settlements.
It's about killing the Jews.
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That is the way the Jews wanted it to be. It gives them something to whine about.
 
The Fool said:
maybe you could first establish that the various arab states "started" the 48 war? That would be the best approach in my opinion. Its my view that the conflict and fighting had been going on for quite some time and the "start date" of the 48 war has been arbitrarily set at the point that arab armies crossed into the "disputed areas" but for some reason its not set at the earlier date when "israeli" forces crossed into these areas..
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Really? Israeli forces crossed into Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and Yemen before they were attacked by those countries/territories? I'll need evidence of that.
 
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mortimer said:
I'm not insinuating it.
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sure you are. why should the Arab nations compensate the refugees for property the Israelis refuse to allow them to return to?

should Israel compensate the Maghreb Jews for property confiscated by the Arab countries that Jews left in the 1940s and 1950s?

has Germany compensated the Sudeten Germans for their lost property in the Czech Republic?
 
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The Fool said:
maybe you could first establish that the various arab states "started" the 48 war? That would be the best approach in my opinion. Its my view that the conflict and fighting had been going on for quite some time and the "start date" of the 48 war has been arbitrarily set at the point that arab armies crossed into the "disputed areas" but for some reason its not set at the earlier date when "israeli" forces crossed into these areas..
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Nor does it mention the reason for the attempted intervention, to stop the mass murders and expulsions being perpetrated by the Jews.
 
mortimer said:
Really? Israeli forces crossed into Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and Yemen before they were attacked by those countries/territories? I'll need evidence of that.
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Are you really saying you are unaware of the mass murders and expulsions from the parts of Palestine designated for Palestinian rule? Have you never read any history at all? Or are you deliberately posting what you know is not true?
 
mortimer said:
Really? Israeli forces crossed into Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and Yemen before they were attacked by those countries/territories? I'll need evidence of that.
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why do you think this? I didn't say it.
 
Matt Giwer said:
Nor does it mention the reason for the attempted intervention, to stop the mass murders and expulsions being perpetrated by the Jews.
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that was their stated reason, often its something else entirely. Everyone has to have their own reality where they are not at fault and didn't start it....arabs, Israelis.....everyone has their own mythology.
 
Thunder said:
Sure you are. Why should the Arab nations compensate the refugees for property the Israelis refuse to allow them to return to?

Should Israel compensate the Maghreb Jews for property confiscated by the Arab countries that Jews left in the 1940s and 1950s?

Has Germany compensated the Sudeten Germans for their lost property in the Czech Republic?
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I said I wasn't insinuating it, because I stated it openly and clearly. No insinuation needed.

I am not stating that Virus' claim is correct. I am stating that your comparison to American Jews compensating Holocaust victims is incorrect. So I don't need to, nor do I wish to, defend Virus' claim.
 
mortimer said:
After a more careful reading, I retract that. You are correct.
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no worries.

the sad thing is that fighting and conflict and death had been a feature of the mandate area for a long long time. I sometimes get frustrated when people assign the "start" of the conflict to a particular date and act of one side....


The partition plan was a heap of garbage that was always going to end in war....the states it outlined were rediculous and unsustainable. On a map it looks like something designed by an idiot.
 
Why have I never even seen such a simple, obvious, elementary and introductory question openly engaged?

What are reasonable expectations of outcome when one side openly swears only to kill the other side and that same side is not held to any standards or expectations whatsoever?

What result is expected? What result is demanded?

This is madness.
 
mortimer said:
I am not stating that Virus' claim is correct. I am stating that your comparison to American Jews compensating Holocaust victims is incorrect. So I don't need to, nor do I wish to, defend Virus' claim.
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The Arab nations are not responsible for Israel exiling 750,000 Arabs. Therefore, they should not have to compensate them.

American Jews are not responsible for the Holocaust. Therefore, they should not have to compensate Jews for lost property.

Germany is not responsible for Czechoslovakia kicking out 90% of its German population after WW2. Therefore, Germany should not have to compensate them for lost property.

Did Israel compensate the Maghreb Jews for confiscated property in the Middle East and North African states? No? Good..they shouldn't have to.
 
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