General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Matt Giwer]

No serious country is questioning Israel's right to exist. Only loony protestors.

Its clearly a right-wing Zionist strawman.

Next they will declare that they refuse to force Israel to withdraw to the 1947 Partition Lines.

You are mixing issues. EVERY country in the world rejects the right of Israel to exist as a jewish supremacist state and rightly so.

Israel will not be permitted to continue as a jewish supremacist state, period.

The game is over. Its days as a jewish supremacist state are numbered and most people can count the years even if missing two fingers.

 

[Mycroft]

please....the old repeated attempt to equate palestinians with Aboriginal australians is a joke. Get back to me when Israel actually even thinks about applying the same principles to palestinians as australia does with Aboriginals. Wildcat does this aboriginal side topic roughly monthly....the answers never apparently sink in.

You mean by stealing their babies, erasing their culture and trying to breed them out of existence?

You're in denial. Israel has never done anything even comparable to what white Australians have done to the Aboriginals.

 

[Mycroft]

The Allies promised the Arabs democracy in the Middle East. What democracy was set up in the Middle East after WW1??

answer: none.

Did they promise democracy or autonomy?

 

[theprestige]

I made no assertion that Israel was fascist, I said that the assertion that might is right is fascist. Maybe you should just read what I said.

Nobody's making that assertion.

 

[Thunder]

Did they promise democracy or autonomy?

Democracy. And it was clearly not delivered.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Did they promise democracy or autonomy?

Autonomy. Found an excerpt that sums it up quite nicely.
http://pagerankstudio.com/Blog/2011...s-and-objectives-outcome-casualties-treaties/

If the Arab League was created first and foremost to prevent the birth of a Jewish state in Palestine, it was also formed in anticipation of liberation from the old colonial shackles. The Islamic nationalism that had been awakened during World War I by Allied promises of autonomy in exchange for Arab support in the conflict also finally reached fruition at the end of World War II. The first great wave of decolonization came when the British and the French, honoring their war-time promises, evacuated then recognized the sovereignty of Egypt and Syria in 1947 and Iraq in 1947. There was nothing magnanimous about the Allied support; it came in response to the strategic importance of the Middle East, deriving from its vast oil reserves, the Suez Canal, and its position along the south rim of the Soviet Union.

The San Remo conference and the subsequent Treaty of Sèvres only confirms this further, which can be found in full text here.

No mention or promises by the Allied powers for democracy exist.

But I'm guessing this was a rhetorical question on your part and a test whether the person in question thinks independence, sovereignty, autonomy, and democracy are somehow interchangeable.

My guess is Parky failed with flying colors.

 

[Matt Giwer]

You mean by stealing their babies, erasing their culture and trying to breed them out of existence?

You're in denial. Israel has never done anything even comparable to what white Australians have done to the Aboriginals.

Stealing babies. You mean like zionist Jews did from Sephardic Jews. I guess that isn't so bad after all.

 

[Matt Giwer]

You mean by stealing their babies, erasing their culture and trying to breed them out of existence?

You're in denial. Israel has never done anything even comparable to what white Australians have done to the Aboriginals.

Or do you mean like this?

“This settlement is not only another obstacle to returning to negotiations, but it also raises tensions, institutionalizes discrimination, and brings those with extremist beliefs in close proximity to Palestinian residential areas,” he said.

Erekat added that the establishment of settlements in Palestinian neighborhoods is an attempt to destroy the social fabric of Palestinian society, which according to him, Israel attempted to do in other places such as Hebron, Silwan, and Sheikh Jarrah.

 

[Matt Giwer]

Victims of Jewish Terror

It is now official. When Jews kill Palestinians breaking the law they are victims of jewish terror.

Israeli killed by Palestinian police in Joseph's Tomb officially recognized as terror victim

 

[Thunder]

Did they promise democracy or autonomy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-French_Declaration

The Anglo-French Declaration of 1918 clearly and unequivocally promises the peoples of the Middle East who had been liberated from the Ottoman Empire, governments of, by, and for the people. The WHOLE reason the Arabs worked with the British & French, and rebelled against the Ottomans, was in order to achieve freedom and rule by the people.

Clearly, this promise was broken. Palestine was designated a Jewish State and the rest of the Middle East was turned into Mandates until after WW2, and then Allied-friendly kingdoms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussein-McMahon_Correspondence#Following_World_War_I

 

[mortimer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-French_Declaration

The Anglo-French Declaration of 1918 clearly and unequivocally promises the peoples of the Middle East who had been liberated from the Ottoman Empire, governments of, by, and for the people. The WHOLE reason the Arabs worked with the British & French, and rebelled against the Ottomans, was in order to achieve freedom and rule by the people.

Clearly, this promise was broken. Palestine was designated a Jewish State and the rest of the Middle East was turned into Mandates until after WW2, and then Allied-friendly kingdoms.

Did you even read the link you just posted?

"The agreement made it explicit that the form of the new governments was to be determined by local populations rather than imposed by the signatory powers."

Fail.

 

[Matt Giwer]

Autonomy. Found an excerpt that sums it up quite nicely.
http://pagerankstudio.com/Blog/2011...s-and-objectives-outcome-casualties-treaties/

The San Remo conference and the subsequent Treaty of Sèvres only confirms this further, which can be found in full text here.

No mention or promises by the Allied powers for democracy exist.

The promise is defined by what T.E. Lawrence was authorized to say not by what Sykes and Picot wrote.

 

[Matt Giwer]

Palestine was designated a Jewish State

You know better than that. Why do you say something you know is not true?

The preamble of the mandate declared:

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

Do you see "jewish state" in there any place? Do you see something you can pretend it really means a jewish state? Do I need to pull out the white papers too?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

It is now official. When Jews kill Palestinians breaking the law they are victims of jewish terror.

Israeli killed by Palestinian police in Joseph's Tomb officially recognized as terror victim

From your article:

The incident, however, has still not been classified as a terror attack although according to the IDF investigation, the Palestinian policemen did not act in self-defense.

And

"This meeting is meant to clarify that a mistake was made here, that this is not Palestinian policy," Fruman said on Army Radio. "The Palestinian policy is to protect the law and protect the peace. We plan for the governor to invite Jews to pray at the Tomb again."

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Everyone appears to agree it was stylistically perfect. So were Hitler's.

The issue is content. There was nothing new. Where does Israel go from here?

Why does Israel need to go anywhere? What kind of question is that?

Also, why do the Palestinians need to discuss land before making a state? In these negotiations, Israel will be changing it's borders, yet it's already a state. Much like the question of why Jordan, Egypt, and Syria didn't create a Palestine state when they had taken control of the land, what is stopping them from creating their own state?

 

[Virus]

If the Palestinians want reparations for fleeing the 1948 war then the Arab states can pay it. After all, they started it.

Of course, anyone that's paying attention knows it's not about reparations, or states, or borders, or settlements.

It's about killing the Jews.

 

[Thunder]

If the Palestinians want reparations for fleeing the 1948 war then the Arab states can pay it. After all, they started it.


......yeah, that's like asking wealthy American Jews to compensate the Holocaust victims.

 

[mortimer]

If the Palestinians want reparations for fleeing the 1948 war then the Arab states can pay it. After all, they started it.


......yeah, that's like asking wealthy American Jews to compensate the Holocaust victims.

Are you suggesting that America started the Holocaust? Wow.

 

[Thunder]

Are you suggesting that America started the Holocaust? Wow.

Are you insinuating that I am suggesting the United States of America is responsible for the Holocaust? Wow.

by the way, why are you questioning my statement, and not Virus'?

Is it ok to suggest that the Arab states should compensate the Arab refugees for their loses caused by Israel's refusal to let any back and compensate any?

Since when should anyone, but the responsible party, do the compensating?

 

[mortimer]

Are you insinuating that I am suggesting the United States of America is responsible for the Holocaust? Wow.

by the way, why are you questioning my statement, and not Virus'?

Is it ok to suggest that the Arab states should compensate the Arab refugees for their loses caused by Israel's refusal to let any back and compensate any?

Since when should anyone, but the responsible party, do the compensating?

I'm not insunuating it. You compare Virus' suggestion that those who started the war against Israel to pay reparations to those affected by it, to American Jews compensating Holocaust victims. Care to explain how there's any way you are not suggesting America (or really, American Jews) started the Holocaust? Or do you care to retract your comparison?