Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Dogzilla]

I stand corrected. Nothing was shocking in Kremer's diary because he was only in the death camp Auschwitz for two months and he wasn't a big fish. He recorded nothing shocking or out of the ordinary, just business as usual for your heroes--eat, drink, and kill Jews:

These are the diary entries that you quoted in the post to which I am responding:

Quote:
2 September 1942
*
Was present for first time at a “special action” at 3 am. By comparison Dante’s Inferno seems almost a comedy. Auschwitz is justly called an extermination camp
**
A first selection is carried out in Cosel, 761 people are killed in the gas chambers.

5 September 1942
*
This noon was present at a special action in the women’s camp, “Moslems”* – the most horrible of all horrors. Hschf Thilo, military surgeon, is right when he said to me today that we are located here in “anus mundi” (anus of the world).
*
In the evening at about 8 pm another “special action” with a draft from Holland. Men compete to take part in such actions as they get additional rations – one fifth litre of Vodka, 5 cigarettes, 100 gram’s of sausage and bread. Today and tomorrow (Sunday) on duty. . .. .

20 September 1942
*
This Sunday afternoon from 3pm to 6pm I listened to a concert of the prisoners’ band in glorious sunshine; the bandmaster was a conductor of the Warsaw State Opera, 80 musicians.
*
Roast pork for dinner, baked tench for supper
*
23 September 1942
*
This night was present at the 6th and 7th special actions. Obergruppenfuhrer Pohl with suite arrived at the Waffen –SS club-house in the morning. The sentry at the door presented arms before me for the first time.
*
At 8 o’clock in the evening supper in the Home with Obergruppenfuhrer Pohl, a truly festive meal. We had baked pike, as much of it, as we wanted, real coffee, excellent beer and sandwiches. . . .

7 October 1942
*
Present at the 9th special action (new arrivals and women “Moslems”) Wirths finally back. Am acting for Entress in men’s camp (introducing doctors etc). . . .

17 October 1942
*
Was present at a punishment and 11 executions. Have taken fresh liver, spleen and pancreas material after an injection of pilocarpin
*
Drove to Mikolow with Wirths, who had told me earlier that I would have to stay on longer. . . .

18 October 1942
*
In wet and cold weather was on this Sunday morning present at the 11th special action (from Holland). Terrible scenes when 3 women begged to have their bare lives spared. . . .

The entry from 2 September 1942 isn't accurate.

Was present for first time at a “special action” at 3 am. By comparison Dante’s Inferno seems almost a comedy. Auschwitz is justly called an extermination camp
**
A first selection is carried out in Cosel, 761 people are killed in the gas chambers.​

The first part in italics appears in the diary. The bold face line about "A first selection....761 people are killed in the gas chambers." doesn't appear in the diary. It's a note that appends the actual diary entry on the HolocaustResearchProject.org website but it's not something Kremer wrote.

 

[LemmyCaution]

These are the diary entries that you quoted in the post to which I am responding:




The entry from 2 September 1942 isn't accurate.

Was present for first time at a “special action” at 3 am. By comparison Dante’s Inferno seems almost a comedy. Auschwitz is justly called an extermination camp
**
A first selection is carried out in Cosel, 761 people are killed in the gas chambers.​

The first part in italics appears in the diary. The bold face line about "A first selection....761 people are killed in the gas chambers." doesn't appear in the diary. It's a note that appends the actual diary entry on the HolocaustResearchProject.org website but it's not something Kremer wrote.

Thanks for catching this error, you are correct, I overlooked that line when I deleted the others and thus left in what was meant to be excised. It does not belong in the material I quoted. As noted, nothing shocking in a place that makes Dante's Inferno seem a comedy and is justly called an extermination camp, the anus mundi, or the most horrible of horrors. Special action, from which women appeal to have their lives spared, being just a part of the frivolity and feasting.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Thanks for catching this error, you are correct, I overlooked that line when I deleted the others and thus left in what was meant to be excised. It does not belong in the material I quoted. As noted, nothing shocking in a place that makes Dante's Inferno seem a comedy and is justly called an extermination camp, the anus mundi, or the most horrible of horrors. Special action, from which women appeal to have their lives spared, being just a part of the frivolity and feasting.

Wasn't there a doctor in the 14f13 program that wrote a diary or letters alternating between selecting prisoners to gas and descriptions of the lavish meals he was eating?
I can't remember what it was now exactly. I think these types of documents are a little crude and too obvious, but i daresay lemmycaution is a big fan of them.

Meanwhile, continuing on with Wroclaw's list - I assume we are agreed that Baer has not left testimony that he saw gas chambers, I will move on to Konrad Morgen

This is his testimony at Nuremberg

A. I thoroughly investigated the entire stretch of territory and studied the lay-out and installations. The prisoners arrived on a side track in closed transport cars and were unloaded there by Jewish prisoners. Then they were sorted out according to their capacity for work, and here the methods of Hoess and Wirth differed. The selection of those incapable of all work was done in a fairly simple way. There were several trucks and the doctor told the arrivals to use the trucks. He said that only sick, old persons and women with children were allowed to use them. Thereupon these persons surged toward the transportation prepared for their use and then he needed only to hold back the prisoners that he did not want to send to destruction. These trucks drove off but they did not drive to the concentration camp Auschwitz, but in another direction to the extermination camp Monowitz which was a few kilometres away. This extermination camp consisted of a number of crematoria which were not recognizable as such from the outside. They could have been taken for large bathing establishments and that is what they told the prisoners. These crematoria were surrounded by a barbed wire fence and were guarded from the inside by the Jewish labour details which I have already mentioned. The new arrivals were led into a large dressing room and told to take their clothing off. When this was done -

Q. Is that not what you described yesterday?

A. Of course.

Q. What precautions were taken to keep these things absolutely secret?

A. The- prisoners who marched to the concentration camp had no inkling of where the other prisoners were taken. The extermination camp Monowitz lay far away from the camp of Auschwitz. It was in an extensive industrial area and was not recognizable as a crematorium, as everywhere on the horizon there were smoking chimneys. The camp itself was guarded on the outside by special troops of men from the Baltic, Esthonians, Lithuanians, Latvians and also Ukrainians. The entire technical arrangement was almost exclusively in the hands of the prisoners who were assigned for this, and they were only supervised by an Unterfuehrer from time to time. The actual killing was done by another Unterfuehrer who let the gas into this room. Thus the number of those who knew about these things was extremely limited. This circle had to take a special oath -

EXAMINATION BY THE TRIBUNAL

BY THE PRESIDENT:

Q. Were these Unterfuehrers in the SS?

A. They wore SS uniforms.

Q. Did you not take the trouble to ascertain whether they were proper members of the SS?

A. I said that they were people from the eastern territories.

Q. I do not care what you have already said. What I asked you was, did you not take the trouble to ascertain whether they were members of the SS?

A. I beg your pardon, your Lordship. I did not understand your question. They could not be members of the General SS. As far as I could learn, they were volunteers and draftees who had been recruited in the Baltic countries where they had carried out security tasks and who were especially selected and sent to Auschwitz and Monowitz. These were special troops who had only this particular task and no other. They were completely outside of the Waffen SS -

So he says the gas chambers were in Monowitz and states that only non-SS troops worked and guarded it - or at least Ukrainians or Baltic troops. Which is obviously untrue.

So although he does claim to have seen the gas chambers, all of us agree he is a perjurer. Hence i think he does not help you case very much.

 

[TheRedWorm]

95% of my viewpoint is the result of my interpretation of the information provided by sites that proffer the popular view of the Holocaust. Much of that truth has been weaned from those sites to prevent the "soap" and "4 million at Auschwitz" type mainstays from becoming a liability.

You didn't answer any of my questions in any sort of depth. Please do so now.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Still more on Konrad Morgen. This was his testimony at the Frankfurt trial where he describes how the trucks carrying the victims to be gassed disappeared into a large ground depression when they entered the Krematorium yard

Da fuhren die rein, so daß also ein Außenstehender, der diese Lastwagenkolonne sah, dann plötzlich nur feststellte, daß die in einer Bodensenkung verschwunden waren, ohne daß er aber nun feststellen konnte, wo die Transportierten abgeblieben waren – auch wieder eine dieser raffinierten, im Grunde aber primitiven Vorsichtsmaßnahmen, die man als roten Faden durch die ganze Organisation immer wieder feststellen konnte.

Complete fantasy - so can we agree that Dr Morgen is a perjurer and a false witness?

 

[dafydd]

Did people deny the divinity of Christ? Of course they did.
!

Do,not did. Please try to keep up.

 

[dafydd]

And yet if that yoke is something which never actually happened, then it should be Germany first and foremost trying to correct the record. It isn't. That should tell you something about the validity of theories.


Side note: I wonder, do Clayton et. al. deny the various heinous acts perpetrated by the Japanese during WWII, e.g. the 'comfort women,' Bataan Death March, the widespread mistreatment of prisoners of war? Or is it just German transgressions which are faked while Japanese misdeeds were real?

Hitler declared the Japanese to be Aryans when they entered the war so I suppose that our Hitler fans here will deny anything that they got up to.

 

[dafydd]

Still more on Konrad Morgen. This was his testimony at the Frankfurt trial where he describes how the trucks carrying the victims to be gassed disappeared into a large ground depression when they entered the Krematorium yard



Complete fantasy - so can we agree that Dr Morgen is a perjurer and a false witness?

No.

 

[little grey rabbit]

No.

Ah, so you think when the trucks carrying the gassing victims did turn into the crematorium courtyard they did suddenly disappear into a large earth depression so that it appeared to the outside observer they had simply vanished?

While I realise your knowledge of these matters probably does not extend beyond the monosyllabic.

 

[Think_Tank]

"In total there are the depositions of forty SS-members sentenced in Poland in 1947, those of Höss and those of 19 SS-members sentenced or acquitted in the German Federal Republic between 1963 and 1965, the depositions of Baer and Dejaco and of a further seven SS-members testifying as witnesses who admitted to having seen the Auschwitz gas chambers with their own eyes. A total of 69 witnesses who had belonged to the SS."

Wroclaw's point still stands.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Wroclaw's point still stands.

Only to extent that he was quoting Dr Steven Monk. But he was endorsing Dr Monk by quoting him.

And I as have demonstrated Dr Monk was in error.

In fact we are yet to point out a single SS who testified to seeing the gas chamber with his own eyes - since I think we can safely exclude Dr Morgen as a perjurer.

 

[TheRedWorm]

Your objections mean nothing, LGR.

I don't really mind one way or the other. But on a personal note, it will be a very sad day indeed when I can't get people online hopping mad by saying "The Illuminati did it" or tell them about the One True Crematorium at Birkenau

Well, I believe I can get people hopping mad.

 

[Wroclaw]

I'm throwing this in as a place marker: We'll pick up with Morgen and focus on the eyewitnesses only.

 

[tsig]

With respect, Wroclaw. This was your original claim

seven SS-members testifying as witnesses who admitted to having seen the Auschwitz gas chambers with their own eyes.


Why do you keep ignoring the hilited part?

 

[dafydd]

Ah, so you think when the trucks carrying the gassing victims did turn into the crematorium courtyard they did suddenly disappear into a large earth depression so that it appeared to the outside observer they had simply vanished?

While I realise your knowledge of these matters probably does not extend beyond the monosyllabic.

No,I have read widely about the Holocaust and an uncle of mine saw one of the camps. You don't deserve long replies. The Holocaust happened,you know it happened too,you deny it because you hate Jews and want it to happen again. Why do you admire Hitler and hate Jews?

 

[dafydd]

Only to extent that he was quoting Dr Steven Monk. But he was endorsing Dr Monk by quoting him.

And I as have demonstrated Dr Monk was in error.

In fact we are yet to point out a single SS who testified to seeing the gas chamber with his own eyes - since I think we can safely exclude Dr Morgen as a perjurer.

And we can safely discount you as a Jew hating liar.

 

[kageki]

No,I have read widely about the Holocaust and an uncle of mine saw one of the camps. You don't deserve long replies. The Holocaust happened,you know it happened too,you deny it because you hate Jews and want it to happen again. Why do you admire Hitler and hate Jews?

Your uncle didn't see people being gassed or even the bodies of people alleged to be gassed because they don't exist.

Your retorts are way out of line and it's been old for a long time. It's amazing why this forum allows that.

 

[Wroclaw]

Mock (that's Mock, not Monk) said seven eyewitnesses.

Learn to read.

 

[Wroclaw]

Your uncle didn't see people being gassed or even the bodies of people alleged to be gassed because they don't exist.

Oh, I love the Internet.

That above is the kind of statement that would normally earn a guy a mouth full of bloody Chiclets. But anonymouse up there can just blather all day long. Not one iota of sac.

 

[dafydd]

Your uncle didn't see people being gassed or even the bodies of people alleged to be gassed because they don't exist.

Your retorts are way out of line and it's been old for a long time. It's amazing why this forum allows that.

Telling the truth is not way out of line,the mods know that. My uncle Jim was not a liar,unlike denialists. I don't know why you hate Jews and deny the Holocaust,could you please enlighten me?