When was homophobia invented?

[EGarrett]

I remember a few years ago that I was fascinated to find out that though Obama is considered the first black U.S. President, we had a gay President over 150 years ago.

But yet no one seems to make a big deal about this, and according to what I've read it didn't seem to be big deal in the 1850's. A couple of the Senators referred to the President and his life partner as "Miss Nancy" and "Aunt Fancy" but other than that it didn't seem to have a big effect on the country nor was it made big news.

Now, is this because of the almost utter lack of media information available to the public? Or was this before mass-homophobia became the standard? I've read also that homosexuality in Ancient Greece was quite common and even used to boost camaraderie in the military. It almost seems like homophobia was "invented" (so to speak) in the 1950's. Or perhaps it goes hand-in-hand with the spread of Christianity?

So when did it become standard to shame and fear homosexuals?

 

[AvalonXQ]

But yet no one seems to make a big deal about this, and according to what I've read it didn't seem to be big deal in the 1850's. A couple of the Senators referred to the President and his life partner as "Miss Nancy" and "Aunt Fancy" but other than that it didn't seem to have a big effect on the country nor was it made big news.

The evidence just is as compelling for the proposition that Buchanan and his close friend were not gay but received the same sort of (homophobic) jokes that two close male friends often catch today, such as the titles you mention above.
Buchanan continued to court women even during the time that he lived with King, and the little remaining correspondance we have of him makes it clear that he spoke as though he was in love with a woman on more than one occasion.

 

[applecorped]

When was homophobia invented?


When homosexuals were.

 

[DallasDad]

Nah, when heterosexuals were.

 

[epepke]

I remember a few years ago that I was fascinated to find out that though Obama is considered the first black U.S. President, we had a gay President over 150 years ago.

But yet no one seems to make a big deal about this, and according to what I've read it didn't seem to be big deal in the 1850's. A couple of the Senators referred to the President and his life partner as "Miss Nancy" and "Aunt Fancy" but other than that it didn't seem to have a big effect on the country nor was it made big news.

Now, is this because of the almost utter lack of media information available to the public? Or was this before mass-homophobia became the standard? I've read also that homosexuality in Ancient Greece was quite common and even used to boost camaraderie in the military. It almost seems like homophobia was "invented" (so to speak) in the 1950's. Or perhaps it goes hand-in-hand with the spread of Christianity?

So when did it become standard to shame and fear homosexuals?

It seems to me more likely that homophobia comes in waves, with the current wave dating from the start of the post-WWII era (c.f. Alan Turing in the UK and castration on the books for homosexuality in several US states). During the teens and twenties, there was very little homophobia. This probably had a lot to do with WWI. But then a little bit before that, there was the trial of Oscar Wilde.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Thomas Jefferson:

In 1779, Thomas Jefferson proposed a law that would mandate castration for gay men and mutilation of nose cartilage for gay women. But that's not the scary part. Here's the scary part: Jefferson was considered a liberal. At the time, the most common penalty on the books was death.

Linky.

Greeks and Romans did pederasty, not so much with homosexuality. Even Oscar Wilde considered himself a pederast in the same tradition.

Of course, you are presenting this assuming a single cultural history. Interestingly, the term "homosexual" was invented a a number of years prior to the first utterance of "heterosexual".

 

[NoScotsman]

Why is it that Mormons and homosexuals always lay claim to people posthumously?

It's creepy.

 

[EGarrett]

The evidence just is as compelling for the proposition that Buchanan and his close friend were not gay but received the same sort of (homophobic) jokes that two close male friends often catch today, such as the titles you mention above.
Buchanan continued to court women even during the time that he lived with King, and the little remaining correspondance we have of him makes it clear that he spoke as though he was in love with a woman on more than one occasion.

For fifteen years in Washington, D.C., before his presidency, Buchanan lived with his close friend, Alabama Senator William Rufus King.[58][59] King became Vice President under Franklin Pierce. He became ill and died shortly after Pierce's inauguration, four years before Buchanan became President. Buchanan's and King's close relationship prompted Andrew Jackson to call King "Miss Nancy" and "Aunt Fancy", while Aaron V. Brown spoke of the two as "Buchanan and his wife."[60] Some of the contemporary press also speculated about Buchanan's and King's relationship. The two men's nieces destroyed their uncles' correspondence, leaving some questions about their relationship; but the length and intimacy of surviving letters illustrate "the affection of a special friendship",[60] and Buchanan wrote of his "communion" with his housemate.[61] In May 1844, during one of King's absences that resulted from King's appointment as minister to France, Buchanan wrote to a Mrs. Roosevelt, "I am now 'solitary and alone', having no companion in the house with me. I have gone a wooing to several gentlemen, but have not succeeded with any one of them. I feel that it is not good for man to be alone, and I should not be astonished to find myself married to some old maid who can nurse me when I am sick, provide good dinners for me when I am well, and not expect from me any very ardent or romantic affection."[62][63][64]

1) Went through an engagement that showed no specific affection.
2) Never married or had a girlfriend after.
3) Lived with another man for 15 years, multiple people who knew them questioned the nature of his relationship which I don't see any mention of him denying, and was depressed when the man left and "went a wooing" to several gentlemen.
4) Wrote of marrying an old maid who didn't expect any romance.

Let's consider this established and move on with the topic.

 

[EGarrett]

Thomas Jefferson:



Linky.

Greeks and Romans did pederasty, not so much with homosexuality. Even Oscar Wilde considered himself a pederast in the same tradition.

Pederasty is a subset of homosexuality.

Of course, you are presenting this assuming a single cultural history. Interestingly, the term "homosexual" was invented a a number of years prior to the first utterance of "heterosexual".

I have and did acknowledge that other cultures in history saw homosexuality differently. I'm wondering about the origins of it in contemporary culture and particularly if it's linked to specific religions.

 

[AvalonXQ]

1) Went through an engagement that showed no specific affection.

Except the extremely impassioned letter we have that he wrote explaining that he no longer had any reason to live following her death, since she was his only joy -- and the report we have that he was shut-in for several days following her death.

2) Never married or had a girlfriend after.

Nope. Dated women after.

3) Lived with another man for 15 years, multiple people who knew them questioned the nature of his relationship which I don't see any mention of him denying, and was depressed when the man left and "went a wooing" to several gentlemen.

If the names called our various Presidents by other politicians were taken at face value with the same ease that you appear to do this, every one of them would have been convicted of treason and died unmourned.
It is generally understood that he "went a wooing" for friends; colorful language, characteristic of the period.

4) Wrote of marrying an old maid who didn't expect any romance.

Appropriate for his age, regardless of his sexuality. Older men often looked for this regardless.

Let's consider this established and move on with the topic.

Considering that actual historians don't have a consensus on this issue, I'm not going to let you assume it on this forum either. This is a skeptics' forum. The evidence is very much inconclusive, because most of Buchanan's correspondance was burned. We don't know the nature of his relationship with King or with his woman friends.

 

[tesscaline]

Pederasty is a subset of homosexuality.

No. It is NOT.

 

[AvalonXQ]

The name-calling that Buchanan endured at the hands of his enemies on the possibility that he might have had an uncharacteristically close relationship with a man, sexual or not, gives the lie to your whole premise -- homophobia (or at least misogyny) was certainly alive and well in Buchanan's day.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Why is it that Mormons and homosexuals always lay claim to people posthumously?

It's creepy.

Homosexuals and evangelicals both seem to want to change history to suit their own political needs by claiming historical figures as their own. Their legitimacy should stand or fall on its own merits, not according to the size and importance of the members of the "club".

 

[Joey McGee]

Something to do with evolutionary psychology? Which would explain the conservative expression of this abberation. A minor controversy erupted over this on the blogosphere a few months ago on this.

Natural homophobes? Evolutionary psychology and antigay attitudes
Homophobia Phobia: Bad Science or Bad Science Comprehension?

Before you conclude that he's an apologist for phobia, Jesse Bering is gay. He quotes Gallup.

"In its simplest form," he clarifies, "parents who showed a concern for their child’s sexual orientation may have left more descendants than those who were indifferent."

Personally I lean towards such an interpretation but we are a long way away from saying it's true with any confidence. It's interesting both for the theory and the hubbub surrounding it.

 

[Darth Rotor]

No. It is NOT.

Beg pardon, yes it is, in terms of action, however, it's also a subset of pursuing sexual release by any means to hand.

As Michael Stipe once quipped:

"I am an equal opportunity lech."

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

When was homophobia invented?

Right after the first homo was invented.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Thomas Jefferson:

In 1779, Thomas Jefferson proposed a law that would mandate castration for gay men and mutilation of nose cartilage for gay women. But that's not the scary part. Here's the scary part: Jefferson was considered a liberal. At the time, the most common penalty on the books was death.

OK, I get the castration for gay men, but nose cartilage for lesbians? WTF?

 

[Joey McGee]

Perhaps they intuited that the lesbian nose is genitalia. Not too much of a stretch.

 

[Rufo]

Homophobia as it exists in American society today (since American society appears to be the one we're discussing) can only exist in a society where sexuality is relatively openly discussed and where people are allowed a sexual identity. The appearance that it was "invented" in the 1950s may come from the fact that homosexuality was discussed more openly. At least such developments were beginning to take place with the aid of, for instance, the Kinsey reports. When sexual behaviors were more clearly defined and publicly known, the hatred and disgust relating to them became more clearly defined as well.

That's not to say there was no homophobia prior to this. If Buchanan was indeed gay (and no, let's not consider that an established fact, we don't know) it's safe to say that he had good reason to keep it hidden, and that he could live with another man only because the idea of them having sexual relations was seen as too outrageous to seriously suggest. There were plenty of laws around to punish people who engaged in any kind of sex that deviated from the norm, regardless of partner. And yes, reliance on the Bible was definitely part of the reason for these laws.

It's true that some ancient societies had other views on homosexuality, but most of them (including ancient Greece) had a warped view of gender and human beings in general that makes them difficult to relate to. Looking to them for some sort of roots for enlightened present-day views on sexuality can be pretty disappointing.

Homosexuals and evangelicals both seem to want to change history to suit their own political needs by claiming historical figures as their own. Their legitimacy should stand or fall on its own merits, not according to the size and importance of the members of the "club".

Historians are doing their best to understand history using our current knowledge of how human beings work. Sometimes they speculate. There's no need to read any agenda into this.

 

[EGarrett]

Except the extremely impassioned letter we have that he wrote explaining that he no longer had any reason to live following her death, since she was his only joy -- and the report we have that he was shut-in for several days following her death.

He spent no time with her when she was alive.

Nope. Dated women after.

That's not a contradiction to what I said.

If the names called our various Presidents by other politicians were taken at face value with the same ease that you appear to do this, every one of them would have been convicted of treason and died unmourned.

If I went solely by that one anecdote, then yes. But I didn't. Try replying to what I say instead of pulling out one thing and acting as though everything else didn't exist.

It is generally understood that he "went a wooing" for friends; colorful language, characteristic of the period.

The primary definition of "wooing" is to seek romantic affection. Especially in that time when courtship was the primary process of romantic relations.

Appropriate for his age, regardless of his sexuality. Older men often looked for this regardless.

You're trying to hand-wave. He specifically stated that he would have no romantic interest in the woman in his home...and specifically used the term "wooing" when discussing finding men to come to his home.

Considering that actual historians don't have a consensus on this issue, I'm not going to let you assume it on this forum either. This is a skeptics' forum.

It's also a logic and common sense forum.

The evidence is very much inconclusive, because most of Buchanan's correspondance was burned.

And why do you think that was?

And that's not a rhetorical question. Answer it.

No. It is NOT.

Definition for homosexuality:
a sexual attraction to (or sexual relations with) persons of the same sex. More »
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn Source

There is no value judgement in me saying that pederasty is a subset of homosexual behavior. The term "homosexual" is simply an adjective that describes sexual attraction to or sexual behaviors with people of the same sex.

The name-calling that Buchanan endured at the hands of his enemies on the possibility that he might have had an uncharacteristically close relationship with a man, sexual or not, gives the lie to your whole premise -- homophobia (or at least misogyny) was certainly alive and well in Buchanan's day.

I didn't have a premise. Please review the usage and applications of the "question mark" in punctuation.

Something to do with evolutionary psychology? Which would explain the conservative expression of this abberation. A minor controversy erupted over this on the blogosphere a few months ago on this.

Natural homophobes? Evolutionary psychology and antigay attitudes
Homophobia Phobia: Bad Science or Bad Science Comprehension?

Before you conclude that he's an apologist for phobia, Jesse Bering is gay. He quotes Gallup.

Personally I lean towards such an interpretation but we are a long way away from saying it's true with any confidence. It's interesting both for the theory and the hubbub surrounding it.

It might be said that cultures that glorified heterosexual behavior reproduced more. There have been groups in the past that were entirely abstinent and that no longer exist today. I'm interested though in how homophobia appears to show up en masse at some times in history and then at other times seems non-existent. Both Christianity and Islam seem to be highly homophobic, and I keep feeling like that has something to do with it.